Most Commented: Helping fund illegal immigrants through college
Should state law offer in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants? The overwhelming opinion among many of our readers posting on our discussion board: No!
This position, of course, differs with Monday’s U.S. Supreme Court decision not to hear a challenge to this law, as well as the board’s take on the topic. Here’s an excerpt:
Thousands of teenagers living in California illegally were brought to this country by their parents as young children. Some of them have worked hard and done well in school; on both human and practical grounds, it would be wrong to put a college education out of financial reach by requiring them to pay higher, non-resident tuition to attend the state's public colleges.
It wouldn't just be bad for the students themselves, who bear no responsibility for their illegal status. The public also loses when it pays for a bright student's education through high school but then does not allow that student to become a college-educated adult capable of contributing more fully to the economy and society.
Here are a few arguments readers have presented. (And yes: We’ll continue to delete offensive comments. )
What happened to the idea of earning something?
I will acknowledge that I am a senior citizen and the world has changed since I went to college. Therefore, I will acknowledge that I faced a different reality than young people do today when they want to go to college.
I find the picture related to this editorial unacceptable. In high school I worked really really hard to get accepted at a college or university and went to the University of Chicago because they gave me the most scholarship money. I earned this scholarship. In the summertime I worked cleaning coke ovens in the steel mills that used to dominate the south side of Chicago. This was hot and dirty work, but the pay was really really good.
Today it seems that minorities say that schools have an obligation to admit minority students. Where is the idea that people earn things? Illegal immigrants believe that they have a right to attend a college or university. Where did the idea of earning something go? Illegal immigrants believe they have a right to financial aid. Where did the idea of earning something go?
The world has changed, but I do not see in this regard the world has changed for the better.
-- jeff1947
Illegal immigrant children should join the military first
While education from K-12 is mandatory for all children in the United States, even illegal immigrant children, college is voluntary and a privilege. If any of these young people really want to go to college and demonstrate their support for the country that has nurtured them, all they have to do is sign up for a minimum two years of military service. When they have completed their service they will exit with a ticket for a free college education and their citizenship. Then they have not only my sympathy and support but all the privileges of citizenship.
--aldeneau
Give them the opportunity to apply for student visas
Make them all purchase and legally maintain "foreign student visas" - tie it to class registration and if they don't have a valid visa then they should not be able to attend school in the US. They should be required to pay as much in tuition fees as any other foreign student from any other country does.
Unless the parents can prove that they themselves are here as legal citizens they have made their children foreign students by being here illegally in the first place.
Get Real! How much more is America going to tolerate and give away? This is just another nail in the financial coffin.
-- DoneWithTheMan
Cut back on these incentives to break our immigration laws
"It wouldn't just be bad for the students themselves, who bear no responsibility for their illegal status. The public also loses when it pays for a bright student's education through high school but then does not allow that student to become a college-educated adult capable of contributing more fully to the economy and society..."
Two things:
1) These same "no responsibility" illegals who KNOW they're illegal CAN do something about their status by going back to their country of origin, filling out the necessary paperwork, and waiting their turn in line, just like their parents should have done when they decided it would be more enjoyable to simply cut in line and join in the free-for-all.
2) What good does an eduction do an illegal immigrant when he cannot legally apply for work in California? Until an illegal alien's status is rectified by playing by the rules via LEGAL immigration, the best we can hope for is a well-educated, unemployable illegal alien.
The same people who call for "comprehensive immigration reform" (amnesty, plus a few extra yards of chain link fence in Arizona for show) see no irony in their continued demands for an ever-expanding menu of rights and benefits for illegal aliens, including a "path to citizenship." Cut back on these incentives to break our immigration laws, and you reduce the number of illegal aliens.
-- GregMaragos
ALSO TRENDING:
Accusations of reverse discrimination
Who's to blame for the bad economy?
College shouldn't be a big waste of time and money
--Alexandra Le Tellier
Photo: Students march at UCLA in 2008, advocating higher minority enrollment in UC schools and illegal immigrants' rights to attend college and apply for financial aid. Credit: Al Seib / Los Angeles Times
I HOPE you find yourself in this kind of situation one day in your life times.
may god bless all immigrants.
Posted by: maur | June 08, 2011 at 08:26 PM
The readers opinion doesn't differ from the SCOTUS and I'm surprised that your reporter can't keep their facts straight. The question the SCOTUS ruled on had nothing to do with immigration which is why it got past them. The California law grants in state tuition to students who successfully completed high school, regardless of immigration status, as the California legislation carefully crafted the law to make it non-immigration specific to do an end-run around federal law. SCOTUS can and will still rule against support for illegals should a proper case come before it, such as Arizona's.
Posted by: Anonymous | June 08, 2011 at 08:28 PM
I get it. Let's cut back on education for illegal immigrants so that we can create an underclass of criminals and uneducated laborers. Oh wait, we did that before - when we had slavery. Some people might say we Americans are still suffering from the effects of that mistake. Education, even a college education, is a lot cheaper than the prison cells these kids are headed for if they don't catch a break. We need to be thinking of ways to get more kids in school - not thinking of ways to keep them out. There is some twisted idea that it is a zero sum game but reality is not like that. Educated people create more jobs and more businesses. We need more not less.
Posted by: Aaron Ping | June 08, 2011 at 08:31 PM
"I HOPE you find yourself in this kind of situation one day in your life times.
may god bless all immigrants."
I will never find myself in this situation, because i will never enter another country illegally.
Posted by: GRIMREAPER | June 08, 2011 at 08:55 PM
I do not know people who work as hard as undocumented immigrants in this country. Being able to attend school and enter into higher education is a very difficult task. This is exponentially more difficult when you do not have a social security number to claim your privilege of being in this country legally. Undocumented immigrants do not receive any type of government help when in higher education aside from paying in-state tuition. They do not take any money away from anyone else because they, just like all other students accepted into colleges and universities, worked just as hard if not harder to get to where they are. Have some decency and humanity.
And to answer Jeff1947's comment: undocumented immigrants are a perfect example of people who DO NOTHING BUT work hard to earn their place in this society. Even with all the numerous obstacles we continue to set for them.
It's truly something that more people should be conscious of.
Posted by: Naomi C | June 08, 2011 at 09:31 PM
Either make them legal or get them outta here and for God's sake, don't let anymore come in illegally.
Posted by: Just Another Sucker | June 08, 2011 at 09:59 PM
Maur, we are citizens, so will not be in that situation. Our taxes are high enough from K-12 because of them, and we are tired of it. I hope Maryland's voters vote it out and other states will follow. This is all about getting votes and our leaders want us to foot the bill as always. You can spend your money the way you, but not our money.
Ping, when your family came here were they citizens?
Posted by: Mary Citizen | June 08, 2011 at 10:04 PM
Many people here have really good arguments, but I think all of you are forgetting one thing.
This country was founded by immigrants. Throughout the whole history of the United States, immigrants have come to the United States for a better life. They all came here as poor, humble, and ILLEGAL immigrants. It is greatly hypocritical of all of you to be against immigration when somewhere along the line, your ancestors were these immigrants. Whether you like it or not, every person living in the U.S. is a descendant of poor and humble immigrants that for the most part were illegal since rich people from other countries don't have a need to immigrate to the U.S.
I believe these hard-working students deserve the opportunity to go to college. America's middle class was made possible because people like these undocumented students worked hard to improve their condition. Your grandparents or great-grandparents were probably very similar to these students, otherwise you would be struggling like these students to get an education.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but I strongly believe that if these students have proven to be good people, then we must help them get a college education. We have many American citizens who drop out of school, who can't do basic math problems or read at an adequate level, or who commit actual crimes. On the other hand, we have a small group of students who want to better themselves and contribute to this country. I believe we should help them achieve that goal. They are as American as everyone of us.
Posted by: 11th grade High School student | June 08, 2011 at 11:20 PM
We've been talking about this issue for how many years now and most people still don't understand there is no "front door" for hotel maids, house framers or landscapers. They literally have no "line" to get in because visas for these jobs aren't available given federal law and country quotas.
If you want to solve the problem, as in --really-- solve it, you have to address the demand side of the equation and not just the enforcement side. Nowhere where restrictive laws have been passed in the U.S. have the economic promises that always are made have come true. What do they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
The voters should insist that every candidate promise to pass, not just talk about, pass comprehensive immigration reform that addresses the jobs magnet as well as enforcement. No more letting Congress slide and no more letting state reps whine about how Congress isn't doing something all the while criticizing every attempt they make to solve it. If you don't commit to solving it, you don't deserve election.
Posted by: AZEIR | June 08, 2011 at 11:43 PM
Ok fine pay instate tuition but do we really need to give them financial aid too? We seriously need to stop giving money away to so many illegals. If your gonna have kids here expect to pay everything yourself. What gives them the right to raid our treasury. Stop being a drain or go home.
Posted by: Mike | June 08, 2011 at 11:46 PM
These children were not kidnapped and brought here. They are not victims, though that is clearly the objective of the "brought here by their parents when they were infants" diatribe. These children are the reason their parents broke the law and came here.
It is just the coup de grace of the continuing theft from taxpayers.
Posted by: c-t-m | June 09, 2011 at 02:08 AM
Dear 11th Grade High School Student:
You have NOT been educated, you have been indoctrinated. For the vast majority of immigrants to this nation, the immigration was done LEGALLY. If you have been taught that most immigrants came here illegally, then you need to sue your teachers for malpractice.
My family immigrated in 1907. They came though Ellis Island. Ever hear of it? It is where LEGAL immigrants came to be screened. And many were turned away. The rules for being allowed in the country changed about every two years with each new incoming House. Hear of the Port of New Orleans? The Port of San Francisco? Here is a list: http://www.genesearch.com/ports.html
These are all places where LEGAL immigrants came and ASKED to be let in, and were given the chance to prove their worthiness. They did not bum-rush the school and demand that the United States ignore laws and process.
You do yourself a disservice by repeating (I presume) the lie that most immigrants came here illegally. I suggest you learn some real history.
Posted by: c-t-m | June 09, 2011 at 02:16 AM
@AZEIR
First, we let in 1 million plus *legal* immigrants a year. That's a pretty wide front door.
Second, those jobs you mention are all done by Americans in other parts of the country. Indeed, believe it or not, twenty or twenty five years ago most 'house framing' in California was done by 'Anglo' Americans right here in Southern California. There was even a fairly strong construction workers union.
Third, there is something called 'Say's Law' which says 'supply creates its own demand'. That's especially true with immigration. If, say, the price of landscape workers/gardeners were $25.00 per hour, you'd probably see a lot more American homeowners mowing their own lawns and a lot more professional landscapers planning lower maintenance landscapes instead of the water-hogging subtropical monstrosities we see today. There probably wouldn't be a garment industry in LA if a cheap, low skill workforce was not available. And that is a good thing -- the first thing a country does in moving up the ladder from basic industrialization is shed low value industries like clothes making. Certain there is no reason to have these types of industries in an expensive to live place like LA. The only reason they it is possible is the that they are able to externalize much of the costs of their workforce onto taxpayers (think 'free' school lunches and breakfasts, Section 8 housing subsidies for immigrant workers with US born children, various health care programs, etc).
In short, businesses will always demand cheap labor -- we could let in twice the number of legal immigrants and there would still be some industries whining about how they can't get workers. But as much of the cost of importing workers externalized onto all of us, society as a whole would be economically better off if we restricted the entry of unskilled labor.
Posted by: Mitchell Young | June 09, 2011 at 04:25 AM
@ High School Student
Actually, if you look at the Founders, only one of them was an 'immigrant'. Ben Franklin was born in America, for example, as was his father. Same is true with George Washington. Only Hamilton was an 'immigrant' -- and he only moved from one part of the then British Empire to another.
Second, it is really doubtful the people that came to America before, say, 1850 can really be called 'immigrants'. Settlers is more appropriate, as often they were not moving into a built up country, but forming a whole new society. Of course a lot of times that was on Indian land -- and the Indians often tried to stop them.
Third, you've probably read about how great the 'Ellis Island' era was. Well, a lot of folks have grandparents or great grandparents who were part of that wave of migration. But for Americans already here, it wasn't that great. The East Coast cities had a lot of overcrowded slums. There were ethnic tensions and ethnic machine politics. Sound familiar?
Fourth, the Ellis Island romantics, like many history text writers and columnists for newspapers, ignore a huge fact. Starting in 1910, Congress started restricting immigration, and in 1924 really shut the door tight. The whole middle of the twentieth century was a low immigration period. And guess what? We grew into a superpower, forged a large middle class, started the computer industry -- including companies like Apple and Microsoft that were founded before this current wave of immigration really got going , put an man on the moon, had the baby boom, went through the Civil Rights movement. All with low immigration.
Fact is, immigration restriction is as American as apple pie. Just because at one time we had, in effect, open borders doesn't mean that was good then, or that large-scale immigration appropriate policy now.
Posted by: Mitchell Young | June 09, 2011 at 04:47 AM
When did we lose our common sense? Our Government, has allowed the invasion of 30 million criminals in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution. they force American tax payers to pay Billions to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders children, free medical care,massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens WE ARE BEING INVADED! WAKE UP PEOPLE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9IGKRzdzZ8&feature=player_embedded
.youtube.com/watch?v=tsH8xvjTAlo
.youtube.com/watch?v=Btj6IeOFkis&feature=player_embedded
http://immigrationcounters.com/
.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp
.immigrationshumancost.org/
.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty580.htm
.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/
http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41045
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/003335.html
Every Non-representative including obama and holder are not upholding the oath of office! they swore to defend the Constitution! If these clowns were to do their job, this would all be a Moot point!
Anchors and their criminal parents go, period, you knew you were breaking the law when you crossed the border.
Next shut down any business hiring illegal labor. Oh and owners go to jail.
Got a better idea? Lets hear it!
Posted by: steve | June 09, 2011 at 04:59 AM
I just want to mention in this discussion the F-1 Visa. Why should an international student go through the arduous process of applying for an F-1 student visa, pay undiscounted tuition and agree to limitations on obtaining a job to help offset college costs, if they can simply come illegally, attend and graduate from a CA high school and then receive in state tuition and finacial aid?
The comments people are posting don't seem to touch the heart of the matter. As someone who assists refugees in obtaining asylum, what sets the US apart is our adherence to the rule of law.
How would you feel as an F-1 student in California? Perhaps disappointed that in following the law, you were not given the same benefit as an illegal immigrant. What incentive is there, then, to follow the rule of law?
Posted by: Lynne | June 09, 2011 at 01:22 PM
Naomi C - you are dead wrong.
Receiving in-state tuition IS government assistance. Paying in-state assistance means the government is subsidizing 76% of the true cost of attending most UC colleges.
Not only that, but every illegal immigrant who attends college means there is one citizen/legal resident who is not. It is called opportunity cost. That means we have thousands of people who played by the rules, who obeyed the laws and who are then punished for it.
Posted by: c-t-m | June 09, 2011 at 02:26 PM
Tough nut to crack yet finally the situation is recognized. Compulsive military servive/human service (like France/Israel for a few years even forestry,hospitals,etc. If they dont make it have them take a bus,etc back to there origin.
Posted by: Bill Jablonski | June 12, 2011 at 04:11 PM
Misspelled ,"service" please correct.
Posted by: Bill Jablonski | June 12, 2011 at 04:11 PM
Misspelled ,"service" please correct.
Posted by: Bill Jablonski | June 12, 2011 at 04:11 PM
Istead of the tax dollars that local politicians want to lavish on illegal aliens why dont they encourage them to organize to take back their own country instead of running away.The Ca. politians stab the Ca. taxpayers in ythe back and encourage every sort of illegal activity by aliens,bordering on anarchy.
Posted by: Arian Sedillo | June 13, 2011 at 04:45 AM
In state tuition is just one more incentive for continued violation of our laws, our people and our culture. There may well be some worthy students that are illegal aliens, but not ONE case should be considered until the current hemorrhaging of 400,000 illegal aliens a year is stopped and our border is truly secured. After that is done, we can look at some of these individual cases for merit.
Posted by: Estoban | June 13, 2011 at 12:41 PM
Nice of you to SELECT comments to fit YOUR bias article... Why don't you let everyone comments through and see how many in this state DO NOT want illegals to profit from more programs like this? Are you (the person who wrote this ridiculous article) afraid of reading what most people REALLY think. I suggest you read the other illegal articles within this website, where the comments are not moderated...
deport, don't support and no, we DON'T owe the world our money, land or opportunities, no matter what race, creed, religion, sexual persuasion or age they came here!
Posted by: lexxie | June 13, 2011 at 06:33 PM
Is it true that for every illegal immigrant getting financial aid and accepted into college, one American Citizen is not given the opportunity?
Posted by: dee | June 14, 2011 at 05:00 PM
We have the following two options, as citizens of this country, regarding so - called illegal immigrants:
First, impose an EXTREMELY "heavy" financial penalty on the specific employers of these individuals, that literally, ignore and figuratively, "turn a blind eye" to the presence and so - called unacceptable social costs of their "illegal immigrant" employees! I know for an absolute fact that the world's four largest fast food corporate chains throughout the Los Angeles basin ignore "fake" and "phony" documentation to hire their workers. I know this because as a former school teacher in L.A., many of my former students were considered illegal immigrants and their parents were employed in managerial capacities within the fast food industry throughout Los Angeles County. The corporate entities that gobble up our tax revenues through the exploitation of legal loopholes within the tax system, pay lip service to the cries of the average legal citizenry of this country by claiming to require and verify official documentation before hiring their workers. We all know that their verification process is paper-thin at best and non-existent at worst. The claim from corporate America is that the shortage of labor in their industries precludes them from turning away these potential employees. As a result, waves and waves of illegal immigrants cross our southern borders by the millions to fill those "unfillable" positions and alleviate the labor shortage. This labor shortage may, in fact, exist at the paltry salaries that are paid for those unoccupied positions. Consequently, corporate America's cry for labor assistance (from their perpective) may be very true. Thus, the threat of closing the borders and going to war with our Southern neighbors over this issue is truly a canard and should be stopped immediately. We scapegoat the illegal immigrants as the cause of all our social ills with one hand, yet pull them into our factories and restaurants with the other-- this is truly the epitome of civil hypocrisy. Therefore, if we truly don't want any illegal immigrants, then we must impose multi-billion dollar fines on corporate America for hiring these illegals and use the money to re-fund the bankrupt hospitals and social programs that kept these illegals healthy as they did the bidding for their corporate slave-masters.
Our second option is to realize that the world has undergone a true paradigm shift over the last 30-40 years. As our economy grows, and our multi-national corporations vie for competitive positions in markets across the planet (including our own domestic marketplace), razor-thin profit margins have now become the norm (as opposed to the exception in previous generations). Therefore, to keep costs to the consumer down for staple products (including factory-produced, non-edible and edible goods), it has become imperative for our monolithic, US - based, behemoth, transnational corporate giants to hire illegal immigrants to keep the prices of many items at an acceptable level for the American consumer. The People's Republic of China, by the way, is using its own native citizenry in a somewhat similar, yet, more sinister manner, to deliver low-cost goods to the entire planet's consumers-- including our own goods purchased through big box stores. In today's socio-economic environment, there is still a need- unfortunately- for low-wage labor. The only individuals who have eagerly come forward to provide the needed labor have been illegal immigrants and others of less econ0mic means. Thus, it is extremely important for our way of life to proceed forward, by removing the shroud of fear from these illegals and bring them out from behind the shadows, through the process of "mass" legalization.
These are the two primary options available. In my own personal and humble opinion, our country desperately needs immigrants, and their descendants to prop up our social welfare system over the next hundred years and beyond.
If you look at the current socio - economic state of western European and Southeast Asian developed and "nearly - developed" nations, what you'll see is an example of multiple democracies - in - decline, due to their respectively contracting populations. The dearth of "new" blood in our country's labor pool, results in a shortage of "new" tax money in our country's treasury, that is extremely sought after, as a means to build, maintain, and "prop - up" government retirement programs, such as Medicare, and Social Security-- not to mention, alleviating future shortages of labor that would eventually destroy our economy from within, through a process known as "economic implosion" .
Distant "future history" will comprehensively illustrate that the descendants of today's illegal immigrants became the "financial saviors" of tomorrow's social safety nets and the day after tomorrow's economy.
Posted by: Alex James Andrews | June 16, 2011 at 04:19 PM
theres a guy
Posted by: gill | June 19, 2011 at 05:56 PM
of all the immigrants tha t come to u.s.a. The koreans are most succesuful.
and most of them aren;t illegal.unlike all the south americans.they just drain
the country.
Posted by: pil kyu | June 20, 2011 at 04:00 PM