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Blowback: Don't trust E-Verify on immigration enforcement

The costs and unintended consequences of the program would be great; its payoff is at best debatable.

LamarsmithRaul A. Reyes, a lawyer living in New York City, responds to The Times' June 13 Op-Ed article "E-Verify works; let's use it." If you would like to write a full-length response to a recent Times article, editorial or Op-Ed, here are our FAQs and submission policy

Reps. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) and Elton Gallegly (R-Simi Valley) advocate the mandatory use of E-Verify to preserve jobs for Americans and crack down on illegal immigration. As a supporter of comprehensive reform, I read their Op-Ed article with great interest and was disheartened by their faulty reasoning, especially in light of the considerable influence the two members of Congress wield over our nation's immigration policy. 

They begin their piece by citing the nation's dismal unemployment numbers and quickly segue to their unsourced claim that Americans compete with illegal immigrants for jobs, the reason Smith and Gallegly say mandatory E-Verify checks are needed. Funny, they offer no evidence that citizens are losing out in their quest to land work picking strawberries, cleaning bathrooms or plucking chickens.  

Smith and Gallegly write that E-Verify “quickly confirms 99.5% of work-eligible workers.” What they do not say is that the program fails more than half the time at detecting illegal workers. A 2009 study by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services  found that E-Verify cleared 54% of undocumented workers to work.  

Smith and Gallegly cite a Rasmussen poll  reporting that 82% of likely voters thought businesses should be required to use E-Verify. The New York Times' Nate Silver, however, rightly counsels  "extreme skepticism" when reviewing polls by Rasmussen Reports. In this case, Rasmussen simply asked people if employers should be required to certify that their employees are legal. This is, in fact, already law. I doubt most Americans would want to be forced into a new government program to get and keep a job.

Citing a study by the Public Policy Institute of California, Smith and Gallegly claim that Arizona's mandatory use of E-Verify has reduced the state's illegal immigration population. They omit one of the institute's key finding: Arizona's use of E-Verify has pushed significant numbers of undocumented workers into the informal economy. Instead of going home, illegal workers have shifted to cash-only transactions, depriving the state of much-needed tax revenue. Is this a policy goal worthy of expanding to all 50 states?  

"It is crucial that we promote policies that help grow our economy and increase job opportunities for Americans and legal immigrants," write Smith and Gallegly. I agree. But the National Immigration Law Center estimates a national rollout of E-Verify would result in the loss of about 770,000 jobs.  Based on calculations using known error rates for selected employers, the NILC estimates that between 1.2 million and 18.5 million workers would have to consult with the Social Security Administration and the Department of Homeland Security to correct their records, a task the Government Accountability Office has called "formidable." Almost anyone could be declared ineligible to work: those who have married, divorced or changed their names; legal immigrants and naturalized citizens with paperwork issues; or those unlucky enough to be victims of clerical errors. So much for promoting job growth. 

I found it telling that Smith and Gallegly made no mention of the costs of E-Verify. The Department of Homeland Security estimates it would have to spend $765 million on staff, technology and training if the program were to go national. According to a report by Bloomberg Government, small businesses would bear the brunt of compliance costs, spending about $2.6 billion per year to use E-Verify. E-Verify can be a hassle for big corporations too. In 2008, Intel said that about 12% of its workers were incorrectly tagged as ineligible to work.    

What's more, as a Latino, I have deep reservations about a program that would probably result in discriminatory hiring practices. If E-Verify were to go national, employers might be understandably hesitant to hire anyone who looked or sounded foreign-born, thereby subjecting Latinos increasingly to profiling and discrimination.

Although I do not support illegal immigration or the hiring of undocumented workers, I fail to see the benefits of E-Verify as outlined by Smith and Gallegly. The costs and unintended consequences of the program would be great; its payoff is at best debatable. Unfortunately, the two members of Congress seem willing to overlook the realities of immigration, economics and civil rights in their misguided attempt to turn this compliance program into an enforcement tool. 

 -- Raul A. Reyes

RELATED:

E-Verify works; let's use it

Editorial: You can't rely on E-Verify

Supreme Court upholds Arizona immigration law targeting employers

Editorial: Arizona's overreach

Photo: Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) at a May 26 news conference in Washington. Credit: Harry Hamburg / Associated Press.

 

Comments () | Archives (76)

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Beast

Less than 1 billion to implement nationally? ...Sounds worth it to me.

We spend $14 Billion on illegal aliens alone, so that price tag works just fine for me.

Tang!

"What they do not say is that the program fails more than half the time at detecting illegal workers. A 2009 study by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services found that E-Verify cleared 54% of undocumented workers to work."

I'd like to know excatly what fails? But to put your mind at rest about the other matters, a quck internet search will show you the below information. Just take the time to READ.


Employers are required to post a notice that tells employees that E-Verify is being used by the employer
E-Verify must be used for newly hired employees only
Employers can't use E-Verify to verify the employment eligibility of current employees
Employers have to use the system for all newly-hired employees, so it can't be used selectively, that is, an employer can't use it for foreign-born new hires and not use it for new-hires who are US citizens
E-Verify can be used only after a worker has been hired and has filled-out Form I-9
Employers can't use E-Verify to pre-screen applicants
If an employee challenges a tentative nonconfirmation, the employer can't fire or suspend the employee or refuse to pay his or her salary


PPPATRIOT

If they were worried about national profiling they would speak the American language.

Tang!

Oop- Sorry - I looked and found out why. ID Theft - thats a different law being broken that is open to anyone with a shady past. See below:

"Fifty-four percent of undocumented workers with cases submitted through the federal government’s E-Verify system receive an inaccurate finding of being work authorized, according to Westat, a contract research organization that evaluated the program for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The finding are not surprising, said Westat, given that since E-Verify’s inception it has been clear many undocumented workers obtain employment by committing identity fraud that cannot be detected by the system."

abusedcitizen

Raul Reyes has done a commendable job of obfuscation regarding E-Verify. But that is to be expected of a Lawyer.

He attempts to convince us with weak and erroneous arguments that there is no alternative but to cower and quiver helplessly when faced with massive numbers of illegal aliens and unemployed American citizens and legal immigrants.

In paragraph 2, with righteous indignation, he blames others for not citing statistics of those who seek the jobs vacated by illegal aliens. But he omits providing those same statistics.

In paragraphs 3 and 4, he appears to suggest that illegal aliens be given a pass due to their resourcefulness faking out the United States by abusing the identities stolen from American citizens.

In paragraph 5, Reyes proposes that the law-breaking activities of illegal aliens be encouraged so illegal aliens do not commit additional illegal activities.

Mr. Reyes, you state that you "do not support illegal immigration" and then present arguments convincing us of the opposite.

Jon Healey

@Beast -- I'd like to see the source of that $14 billion number. Most of the "statistics" floating around online are guesstimates at best.

Joel E. Wischkaemper

USCIS and Mississippi Implement New E-Verify Tool to Combat Fraud

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=304cadec01a80310VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=a2dd6d26d17df110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD

Improves Accuracy and Integrity of E-Verify by Validating Driver’s License Data

Released June 13, 2011

WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) today launched Records and Information from DMVs for E-Verify (RIDE), a new feature which allows USCIS’s E-Verify program to validate the authenticity of Mississippi driver’s licenses used by employees as Form I-9 identity documents.

“RIDE reflects our commitment to continually improving E-Verify,” said USCIS Director Alejandro Mayorkas. “This important enhancement strengthens E-Verify’s anti-fraud capabilities and will play a key role in helping employers in the U.S. maintain a legal workforce.”
==================================

Mr. Reyes really, really got it wrong on E Verify. Read the whole article. It gets worse for Mr. Reyes.

Ironweed

ONLY 1 Billion to implement!?! That is a bargain. Start it up! We paid more than that to deliver anchor babies.

Ironweed

There was a time when databases for fingerprinting and identities was a Dream of law enforcement. One huge development since the last amnesty is computer databanks that would be a priceless tool in immigration and law enforcement. Do we have enough illegal aliens with enough political clout to subvert our laws? Are the taxpayers expected to continue the financial burden for foreign nationals costing us in excess of $113 Billion annually. The burden of education and WIC services for their anchor babies alone is staggering.

This is another sad and transparent argument for MexAmerica. Mexico has been so parisitic for so long, they figure it is time for another whoppin' amnesty to get their straws deeper in our drink.

Ironweed

$14 billion is probably what California pays for them. Nationally, it is over $100 Billion and rising with their increased anchor babies - we pay for prenatal care, delivery, food, diapers, check-ups, you name it. I worked in a public health facility for five years that swarms with them.

Beast

Jon,

We spend $1 Billion alone on illegal alien healthcare, add in the cost of educating illegal alien kids in LAUSD at $12k/year per child. Throw in incarceration, and welfare for the anchor babies, and money lost in remittances to their home countries and you have the fast lane to a fiscal mess.

The small amount of money they pay in taxes is near worthless because they make minimum-low wages, and many get paid in cash under the table.

Less than $1 Billion nationally is nothing as a cost, we could save so much more than that

Dave Francis

WE THE PEOPLE.

AMNESTY or as the Pro-illegal immigration groups prefer to label it--Immigration Reform. The truth is not ever going to happen? The 1986 IRCA was a utter calamity and costly for taxpayers. The 1986 (IRCA) Immigration Control and Reform Act that was a mass amnesty, which became the prime deception, played on the American taxpayer of all time. Because of despicably fraud and supreme neglect, the 2 million farmer’s laborers and other illegal workers who were provided a legal course to citizenship, that ultimately turned into 6 million. Even inexplicable those people, who received this pardon, vanished from their usual places of employment and turned up in the job force around the country that Americans citizens had to compete with. Future wise, Congress proposed the I-9 Form (Employment Eligibility Verification Form.) to ensure that all employees presented documentary proof of their legal eligibility, to accept employment in the United States. If the employee has a hiring issue, and chooses to contest an irregularity notice, the employer prints out the “Referral Letter” from the E-Verify program.

The letter contains information about resolving the problem, as well as the contact information for the (SSA) Social security Administration) or (USCIS) US Citizenship and Immigration Service, depending on which bureau was the source of the non-authorization to resolve the problem? As constantly the open border zealots, US Chamber of Commerce, ACLU and a radical mix of anti American organizations, have used the Liberal Press as a fulcrum to regrettably try to suppress the implementation of E-Verify. Are we not in the poorhouse with China, as it is? But this is no firm binder, because millions more people will strive to reach here, before that ominous Using the media these groups have also brought pressure on the administration not to espouse the Secure Communities law, which identifies criminal aliens through fingerprints by informing ICE. Then Subsequently E-Verify that is increasingly more popular each day by business owners. They are now cautiously aware that an I-9 audit puts their business license in jeopardy, as upheld by the Supreme Court.

NOW THE RUSH HAS BEGAN TO DEFEND CITIZENS AND LEGAL RESIDENTS AGAINST THE ILLEGAL ALIEN INVASION. FIRST ARIZONA, NOW ALABAMA, GEORGIA AND SOON MANY MORE STATES WILL FOLLOW. E-VERIFY IS THE LAW OF THE LAND AND THOUSANDS OF FOREIGNERS NOT WANTING BE CONFRONTED THESE LAWS, WILL HEAD FOR THOSE STATES THAT HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED BY THE LEFTIST PROGRESSIVES OF OPEN BORDERS AGENDA'S.

As with the 1986 (IRCA) bill those who advocate against the laws are profiteers for more wealth, or to accumulate more votes or just to prepare America (according to the WikiLeaks group founder Julian Assange in secret documents) for merging with some kind of traitorous program, with Canada and Mexico with one currency. This stealth agenda was collusion between the Canadian and American Ambassadors.

The other side of the aisle on the corrupt Washington beltway, says we cannot afford to enforce immigration laws? Then my question we had better figure someway, for as the law stands we are just encouraging more illegal newcomers? So the second question, when does this invasion end, when does the lawmakers install laws, that make it impossible to stop this travesty? Are we just going to leave the doors open and hope for the best? All we are encouraging is even more poverty and distressed people, that taxpayers have to bear the full fiscal impact? Ten years from now, population numbers will be skyrocketing and the only winners are the profit-takers.

Whether we are coming out this miserable recession or not, we cannot afford any immigration amnesty. The first Amnesty in 1986 Ronald Reagan's term of office, cost--$76 BILLION DOLLARS--by the time it was fulfilled. In today money it’s expected to cost $2.6 TRILLION DOLLARS as stated the Heritage Foundation. So taxpayers would be expected to cover that bill, lending most of it from China again? Are we not in the poorhouse with China, as it is? But this is no firm binder, because millions more people will strive to reach here, before that ominous inauguration day of a new Immigration Reform bill. If Congress is unable to cut spending in this recent of 14 .5 Trillion dollars US Treasury deficit, can anybody in the right frame of mind, tell us where we intend to get another $2.5 trillion dollars, to subsidize those illegal immigrants already living here? These dollars are inconceivable and even if there was another. It's outrageous that Washington politicians would expect to bleed even more money from traumatic Taxpayers, when we are confronted by rejuvenating two nations abroad, in millions of dollars a day.

Amnesty, it will only further multitudes of people to come here? Washington legislators come and go, author bills, but are never held accountable for the financial wrecks they leave behind? Only Secure Communities, E-Verify can mitigate some of the pressure that will make foreign nationals think twice before crossing the border, or entering America by other means. This isn’t about any particular race, a person’s politics, religion as we are all suffering. It’s not even about the legal Hispanic population, as they are under the same pain of finding a job, stagnant wages and some type of exploitation. We are all the same boat and without stringent restrictions on immigration and its costs, that boat is heading towards rough waters and could easily sink. The TEA PARTY will slow down this process by confronting Washington aggressively on birthright citizenship to rescind it, which will sever the bond of 300.000 babies from foreign nation getting instant citizenship; cutting down on the annual monolithic cost to subsidize these offspring and families.

It will also bring to a halt, which it attributed to this wrongly conferred law, saving taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars a year? The TEA PARTY will examine these unfair taxes placed on Americans, by Liberal oriented courts, to appoint obligations to educate, provide health care that comes with the never ending tide of illegal aliens skirting our laws. The TEA PARTY will created bills to up the penalty, for entering America as a felony. This should have been the law of the land, decades ago? Personally, it has always translated to prove there was no serious intention to enforce these laws. It’s in the vein of a conspirator’s reason, why the Southern border fences completion remains a fiasco. The Tea Party will enforce the 1986 (IRCA) law as was planned, with no complicity of government agencies to stifle those laws, such as the business influence.

The TEA PARTY in 2012 will remove the Liberal influence and even have the empowerment to construct the real border fence, and mandating with no exemptions E-Verify and Secure Communities and indefinitely remove Sanctuary Cities nationwide. As the Tea Party grows against the powerful influences in Washington, these Representatives like TEA PARTY Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota will retire those pro-illegal immigrant politicians, Governors, mayors and all those who have adversely affected strong laws that have been introduced. The American People should not be forced by law, to pay for the impoverished people that trespass into America from other countries.

We can aid our fellow legal workers out, by taking immigration one step towards generic "Citizens Arrest. We cannot apprehend a suspicious individual, as it could lead to legal action. But we have the opportunity to join other "Whistle blowers" to inform ICE or local police as irregularities stand out. Not speaking reasonable English is a dead give-away, specifically in factory environment and if somebody has an accident through not comprehending a warning notice.

The time is ripe to contact their federal and State Representatives to insist they enact mandatory E-Verify, Secure Communities for every State, at the Senate—202-224–3121/ House—202-225–3121.

BoulderJR

It's amazing to me that people are still pushing the notion that illegals are not breaking the law. If they are using false or stolen social security numbers or names, they are felons!!! I voted for Obama the first time because I disliked Bush so much, but not again. His push for amnesty for law breakers has lost me forever.

FutureView

What Raul A. Reyes fails to mention is most system errors are false negatives. It does not catch stolen ID very well. But honest employees have nothing to fear. This is therefore not an Hispanic-specific problem nor a witch hunt. In addition, a new software version is in testing that should improve on catching stolen ID.


What Raul A. Reyes may not know, is that a face recognition module has been in testing for over a year. This souped up E-Verify should be highly effective.

tom_p200

Reyes' entire piece is a classic case of dodge and weave in order to promote open borders.

If, as he claims, E-Verify clears more 54% of illegal workers, that is merely testimony to the rampant use by illegal immigrants of false social security numbers. Of course, Reyes does not propose any better system for "clearing" employment authorization, so I will propose one: a federal biometric ID system, with national federal biometric (fingerprints or iris scans) data base for every person authorized to work and a requirement that every employer "clear" every employee for authorization by taking his fingerprint or iris scan and "clearing" it against the federal data base.

The same federal biometric ID system ought to apply to every government office at every level (state, federal and local) for any government benefit (health, education, bilingual services, etc.) and every government license (business license, driver's license, etc.) The money saved by governments at all levels by cutting out benefits for unauthorized immigrants would be tens of billions of dollars, many, many times the millions of dollars that Reyes (weaping crocodile tears) claims American employers pay to implement E-verify.

Furthermore, if, as Reyes claims, Americans do not "compete" for certain jobs ("picking strawberries", etc.), that is not a reason to drop E-verify or to throw up our hands in helplessness. No, that fact is merely testimony to the fact that employers in those areas can get away with paying slave wages, often on a cash basis, "off the books", "under the table", without paying taxes, and without providing any other benefits, and meanwhile dumping massive costs of health, education, bilingual services, etc. for those employees and their families onto the American taxpayer.

Further still, once Reyes and the open-borders crowd achieve their real agenda ("comprehensive immigration reform", aka "path to citizenship", aka "regularization of status", aka "amnesty"), all of those unauthorized workers now doing all those jobs that Americans supposedly do not want to do (because of slave wages) will, presto, become authorized, and the moment they become authorized they will no longer be willing to work for those the slave wages. So, employers will demand still more new immigrants willing to work for the slave wages -- willing, that is, of course, only until the new immigrants become "regularized" in yet another "reform", aka "amnesty", and thus, in turn, begin demanding decent wages, creating yet further need for yet more new immigrants: a classic Ponzi scheme.

psb962

"They begin their piece by citing the nation's dismal unemployment numbers and quickly segue to their unsourced claim that Americans compete with illegal immigrants for jobs, the reason Smith and Gallegly say mandatory E-Verify checks are needed. Funny, they offer no evidence that citizens are losing out in their quest to land work picking strawberries, cleaning bathrooms or plucking chickens."

The evidence is this: not all workers in those industries are illegal aliens. Some of the workers are, of course, citizens. Therefore the work can, and is, done by citizens, and as a result we can conclude that Americans are indeed competing with illegal aliens for these jobs.

Christian in Austin

GREAT ARTICLE! I was very impressed how Reyes broke down the facts. Lamar Smith is a scumbag politician that will be remembered for being the evil George Wallace of this time. I know this because I live in San Antonio. Reyes was spot on. Also, regarding Arizona, their economy is crashing as a result of the immigration debacle. This country needs to wake up and smell the coffee, we need these immigrants here! It is a win win situation! You are hearing this from a 32/white male, im even Republican!

Janny

Mr. Reyes does not want our laws enforced. Obviously pro-illegal he tries to condem every attempt by the US to enforce our immigration laws.

His numbers are so far out of bounds it's funny. E-verify is the best program we have, it would result in millions self deporting from our country. It's not perfect, but it's better than anything else suggested, and states can pull business licenses with it. (Supreme court decision).

It's time to get business off from taxpayer subsidized welfare. Pick strawberries? our agriculture has unlimited visas.

weirdo2odriew

If illegals are using stolen information then the best way to prevent the false positives from occuring is to allow ICE to tap into the SSA database. That database holds the reporting data that employers are required to report when an employee is paid. Therefore that database also documents the use of an individual SSN which can be used to determine who is the valid ID holder.

If I work in California but someone is using my name and SSN in Utah both employers could be contacted to have the employee contact ICE (or SSA) to verify who is the proper number holder. I can provide detailed information to verify my identity but it would be extremely difficult for the illegal worker to do so.

We also have the problem of parents who rent their childrens information to illegals. The SSA database can also be used to identify those SSN's that belong to those still too young to be in the work force. The parents of those whose numbers are being sold can then be put on notice that someone is watching them.

Bottom line is that E-Verify is a tool that can be continuously sharpened to carve out those who are illegally here. No mass deportations needed since most will go home if they cannot find work.

Make sure you contact your representatives and tell them to mandate E-Verify on a national basis so that we can start putting Americans back to work.

weirdo2odriew

Christian in Austin -

Last month we created just 54,000 jobs in America yet allowed in 100,000 legal immigrants, and who knows how many illegal aliens.

We do not have the jobs to support even those who've entered legally yet you advocate rewarding those who cut in line in front of them. Not only did they cut in the line of legal immigrants but they also have taken the jobs away from our high school graduates who are not going to college and those that are on welfare.

Ironweed

Are they really trying to build on the success of their fraudulent ID theft?

Ali

Ah, a Latino and a lawyer (immigration law?) who doesn't see the benefit of eVerify.

Let's see. 8 million jobs according to the Pew Hispanic Center are being held illegally by illegal aliens. 5-7 million are using SS numbers and IDs stolen from Americans to get them. Contrast this with the mere handful of workers who have had the inconvenience of having to update their records with the SS Administration, WHILE THEY CONTINUED WORKING, under eVerify. There is not one person who is entitled to work in this country who has been fired as a result of the use of eVerify.

eVerify simply makes more secure the task employers are ALREADY charged with: verifying the immigration status of their employees and filing I-9s. In fact, employers now claim that they are qualified to examine documents and determine if they are real or fake, and that if they do look "too closely", they will be accused of discrimination. By a call or internet visit to eVerify, they can verify the right to work of a job applicant AND indemnify themselves against prosecution for hiring an illegal alien IF it turns out that he used eVerify to check the hire. (The program does not--yet--identify all of those who steal entire identities such as the SS number AND the name, although it is now gaining the capability of adding photos from passports and the like.)

As for "racial profiling", no such thing. ALL hires would be required to be checked through eVerify. And what is more "race neutral" than a Social Security number?

Ali

"Fifty-four percent of undocumented workers with cases submitted through the federal government’s E-Verify system receive an inaccurate finding of being work authorized, according to Westat, a contract research organization that evaluated the program for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The finding are not surprising, said Westat, given that since E-Verify’s inception it has been clear many undocumented workers obtain employment by committing identity fraud that cannot be detected by the system."
----------
Gee. You mean the author is claiming that eVerify doesn't do its job of removing illegal aliens from jobs well enough?! Heck, if it removes 46% of illegal aliens from jobs, the correct way of looking at its success rate, that's a great improvement over the present system (requiring employers to check documents by visual inspection) which let's virtually 100% of illegal aliens work. The SS Administration estimates 5-7 million illegal aliens are working in this country, based on SS no matches. Remove roughly half of illegal aliens from jobs and we put 3 million Americans back to work. Meanwhile, the eVerify program should be and is being improved to incorporate photos to make theft of BOTH the number and name more difficult.

Johne

E-Verify is so leaky in detecting illegal workers using stolen or shared identity information that it should be called the full employment for illegals act.
The data structure and logic of E-Verify enables illegals to use stolen or shared personal identifying information.
Employers relying on E-Verify to verify worker status are taking a great risk. as ICE raids have demonstrated many illegals caught in these raids had been successfully screened through E-Verify.

Ali

E-Verify is so leaky in detecting illegal workers using stolen or shared identity information that it should be called the full employment for illegals act.
------------No more "leaky" than the SS database which it uses.

The data structure and logic of E-Verify enables illegals to use stolen or shared personal identifying information.
-----------Yup, but it STILL identifies roughly half of illegal aliens, which even the author of this piece recognizes. Which is a great improvement over NONE, which is the case now, not using it. The system is also being improved to include photo IDs from passports and the like to make identity theft such as you describe harder.

Employers relying on E-Verify to verify worker status are taking a great risk. as ICE raids have demonstrated many illegals caught in these raids had been successfully screened through E-Verify.
-------------Actually, the raids show no such things. Chipotle, for example, didn't start using eVerify until AFTER an ICE audit. Furthermore, if an employer uses eVerify and an illegal alien gets past, the employer is protected from prosecution for it. Don't use it, and you are accountable.
Posted by: Johne

Mitchell Young

I sure am glad that the LA Times published this 'blowback', it really needed to balance all the hardline, pro-immigration enforcement pieces it publishes.

Bullfighter

Governor Pat Quinn is doing the United States a big favor by offering illegal aliens a college degree.

1. He shows that he can round up an estimated 95,000 illegals that have already fleeced the US taxpayer out of a free K-12 education worth around $185,000 in my area.

2. If they sign up, it is an admission of guilt in conspiring to steal a free education from the American taxpayer.

3. He is putting a rope around his own neck when he starts giving these illegal aliens a "driving certificate" that allows them to roam around at will, threatening the lives of Americans on the road.

By the way, former Illinois Governor George Ryan was convicted of allowing illegals to obtain Illinois truck drivers licenses for $$ and he is sitting in jail!!

4. The federal government could force these records to be used to evict these "students" and their parents from the US.

5. They boast that not one cent of taxpayer money will be used to fund this "scholarship" program. But where will the money come from? The only way they could fund this without robbing American charities meant to feed poor Americans is to get the money from Latin America and we all know what cheap bastards they are.

Archie Bunker

THE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS ARE PAYING MORE TAXES THAN YOU THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMMIGRANTS AND TAXES:
Q: “Is it true that illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes and drain our economy?”
A: As Ben Franklin said, “Nothing is certain but death and taxes.” Like the rest of us, unauthorized immigrants pay taxes on their property and anything they buy. More than half of them have taxes taken out of their paychecks, but because our immigration system is dysfunctional, these taxes are paid under false Social Security numbers. We need a new regimen in which we know who is paying taxes and can ensure that no one is getting a free ride. The only way to do that is to pull unauthorized immigrants out of the shadows and get them on the right side of the law.
Three state-level studies have found that unauthorized immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in benefits. In Iowa, unauthorized immigrants pay an estimated $40 to $62 million in state taxes, while they and their employers contribute an additional $50 million to $77.8 million in federal, Social Security, and Medicare taxes from which they will never benefit. In Oregon, unauthorized immigrants—who are not eligible for any state benefits—pay between $134 million and $187 million in taxes each year. Finally, in Texas, the State Comptroller found that, without unauthorized residents, the gross state product in 2005 would have been $17.7 billion less.

THE BOTTOM LINE: Undocumented immigrants are an important component of the U.S. economy. They meet the labor demand in sectors in which they do not directly compete with U.S.-born workers. The great majority of migrant workers are taxpaying, hardworking, and law-abiding people who are integrating into U.S. society.


The economics of immigration, Stephen C. Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration and someone who enjoys bipartisan support for his straightforwardness, said that by 2007, the Social Security trust fund had received a net benefit of somewhere between $120 billion and $240 billion from unauthorized immigrants.
That represented an astounding 5.4 percent to 10.7 percent of the trust fund's total assets of $2.24 trillion that year. The cumulative contribution is surely higher now. Unauthorized immigrants paid a net contribution of $12 billion in 2007 alone, Goss said.

Previous estimates circulating publicly and in Congress had placed the annual contributions at roughly half of Goss's 2007 figure and listed the cumulative benefit on the order of $50 billion.

The Social Security trust fund faces a solvency crisis that would be even more pressing were it not for these payments.
Adding to the Social Security irony is that the restrictionists are mostly OLDER AND RETIRED WHITES from longtime American families. The very people, in other words, who benefit most from the Social Security payments by unauthorized immigrants.


Comprehensive Immigration Reform Would Boost the Economy & Help ALL American Workers: As opposed to the mass deportation, enforcement-only approach, addressing and fixing the immigration system in a wholesale manner will be a boon to the U.S. economy and all U.S. workers. That is why both the AFL-CIO and Change to Win created The Labor Movement’s Joint Framework for Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Dr. Raúl Hinojosa-Ojeda conducted a 2010 report for the Center for American Progress and the Immigration Policy Center that found that “Unlike the current enforcement-only strategy, comprehensive reform would raise the ‘wage floor’ for the entire U.S. economy—to the benefit of both immigrant and native-born workers.” According to the study, granting legal status to undocumented immigrants and creating flexible legal limits on future immigration flows would generate enough consumer-spending to support 750,000-900,000 jobs. The report also found that the mass deportation approach would reduce GDP by 1.46 percent annually, amounting to a loss of $2.6 trillion over 10 years.

Archie Bunker

I AM NOT SAYING DONT CLOSE THE BORDERS. I AM SAYING STOP THE IGNORANCE & HATE.

Read this whos to blame for our economy, its NOT the POOR MIGRANTS.

300 BILLION$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ are not paid in taxes by USA CITIZENS, WHO CHEAT ON THEIR TAXES THAT's A TRILLION$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ EVERY 3.3YEARS.
DONT BLAME THE POOR, STOP CHEATING AND OUR NATION IS OK. :):)

What the hell happened??? Lets BLAME THE FOOD PICKING, , DISH WASHING, LAWN MOWING UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANTS. YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Before you Scream and show Ignorance and Hate at least read the Immigration Law regarding Undocumented Immigrants.

UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT CRIMINALS. Its a Civil Matter.

The whole thing is perplexing to people who don't understand that being an illegal immigrant in and of itself is not a crime. The most pervasive comments made in news stories about Secure Communities go a little like this: "Illegal immigrants are what they're called — they're considered criminals by mere definition. Illegals who broke a bunch of laws to enter and live here should be subjected to immediate arrest and deportation — that's fair for everyone."

That's not accurate, but a lot of people have that same misunderstanding — even law enforcement professionals.

During a teleconference last month on the troubles that Secure Communities is bringing to local law enforcement agencies, a few sheriffs on the call commiserated about their misunderstanding of immigration violations.

"I was always told it was a felony federal violation of law and was always under the impression that turning over any illegal immigrants (to ICE) was mandated by federal law — and so did my employees," said Sheriff Ed Prieto of Yolo County, Calif. "But after we met with the Mexican consulate in Sacramento we learned it's not. Then I started looking into how many of our people are being deported before trial and I became very uncomfortable contacting ICE for nonviolent offenders."

Kane County, Ill., Sheriff Patrick Perez said that "90 percent of law enforcement officers believe (just being an illegal immigrant) is a crime, but I learned after talking to an immigration judge that it is just a civil offense."

Sara Dill, a member of the American Bar Association's Commission on Immigration and a member of the ABA's Criminal Justice Council, explained it to me this way: "States are seeking to criminalize what is only a civil violation in federal law." Dill said that failing to get a permit for home construction is one example of a civil, not criminal, violation. "Putting illegal immigrants in a criminal context confuses merely being present in the United States without authorization with crimes such as falsely claiming citizenship or identity theft, which are crimes under federal law."

Everyone knows that of the universe of illegal immigrants, some have committed nonviolent and violent crimes — and everyone believes these should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

But believers of following "the letter of the law" cannot continue equating all illegal immigrants living in this country with criminals, who have plenty of civil rights of their own. That's not the American way.

Ali

Archie Bunker, do you really think you're doing illegal aliens a favor by pointing out how much money they're stealing from Americans when they steal jobs? After all, if Americans were doing those jobs, as they should be, they'd be earning more than illegal aliens (the mere presence of lots of illegal aliens and even legal ones depresses wages), pay more in taxes and SS, and have more money to spend on consumption.

Furthermore, did you happen to read recently about the boom in theft of income tax refunds by people who have stolen SS numbers and identities? Want to bet that most if not all of those are by illegal aliens? Then, there are the illegal aliens who claim the Earned Income Tax Credit--more than $1 BILLION so far, according to the IRS.

Ali

The Social Security trust fund faces a solvency crisis that would be even more pressing were it not for these payments.
---------------On the contrary, the Social Security suspense fund, the accumulation of literally decades of fraudulent payments by illegal aliens, wouldn't pay for even ONE year's SS benefits, which now amount to more than $600 BILLION.

---------------Illegal aliens who work under STOLEN SS numbers (these do not go into the Suspense fund) are creating a world of hurt for the true owner of the number who must deal with the IRS in paying taxes on the income "he" earned.

-------------And of course, if illegal aliens are doing these jobs, they're displacing Americans from them and Americans would be paying these taxes and more.

Adding to the Social Security irony is that the restrictionists are mostly OLDER AND RETIRED WHITES from longtime American families. The very people, in other words, who benefit most from the Social Security payments by unauthorized immigrants.
--------------First, illegal aliens are generally non English speaking with less than a grade school education. Were they ever legalized, each one of them would end up costing us a net $15,000, according to a report by the SS Administration requested by Rep. Lamar Smith.

--------------Second, in displacing Americans of all races from jobs, illegal aliens drive down the SS contributions of Americans, meaning smaller retirements for Americans.

Fact is, Archie, the only "good" illegal alien, by your own reasoning, is one who is NEVER legalized and never gets any benefits. Once they're legalized and/or start getting benefits, they end up costing us far more than they're worth.

Ali

Archie Bunker wrote:"The whole thing is perplexing to people who don't understand that being an illegal immigrant in and of itself is not a crime."
----------------


"To all those who incessantly talk about illegal immigration not being a "crime", look up 8 USC 1325. Yes, it's a CRIMINAL statute," state Local 2544 officials (Border Patrol).

Delaware Bob

Illegal aliens have NO RIGHT to be in this Country! What is it about this you don't understand? That is why they are called ILLEGAL ALIENS. A so called path to citizenship is anmensty. How about we do this. Get EVERY illegal alien, including their anchor babies, to go back to their own country and in leaving, give each of them an application to enter the right way when they are called. The end of the line is NOT in this country. It is in the country of origin. As for this not being hired because of race or the color of a person's skin is a poor, very poor argument. E-Verify does not know what race or color you are. How fair is that?

When we get rid of the illegal aliens, we will get rid of all the problems that go with them. THAT IS A FACT!

D. Porter

Archie Bunker appears to be a copy-and-paste propagandist who probably has ties to La ARaza, the SPLC, or some other despicable leftist mob.

It doesn't matter whether or not they pay taxes. They are not supposed to be here and most citizens want them and their numerous anchor babies gone, got it?

william herd

I am an employer in Arizona, where, since 2008, employers have been required by law to use e-verify for all new hires.
We are an employment agency. Most of our positions require skills in a trade and language competency, so most illegal border crossers are eliminated.
However, there are thousands of illegals who have lived here for many years. They make it difficult for an employer to determine their eligibility to work here.
E-verify eliminates the doubt. Mr. Reyes obviously has not used e-verify, otherwise he would know that the e-verify databases now have photo recognition capabilities and are capable of cross checking documents for verification with many agencies, thus eliminating 99% of phony documentation. Mr. Reyes' view is incorrect and misleading. Truth trumps advocacy.

landaddy001

This whole argument about racial profiling and discrimination is in my opinion wrong. It automatically assumes that employers will break the law based on race. Employers have clearly demonstrated that they don’t give two shakes about where you come from, if you can speak English or for any of those other nasty little legal requirements. Employers care that the people they hire make them money and that is the problem. The desires of business for low labor costs, is never an excess for breaking the laws. How about we follow the law as written? What the employers want does not govern this country, the citizens do. We have not adequately followed our immigration laws or we would not be here today. Child labor and unsafe work places would also help the economy but those things are illegal just like hiring illegal aliens. Follow the immigration laws as written, no racism, no sob stories, no discrimination and no excuses and extremely few exceptions.

mlimberg

Welcome to America. Obey the law. If you are here illegally, go home, apply for a visa or work permit and then come back.

Once you are deported, you can never legally enter the Country again.

It's not hard to obey the law. Notice the laws are becoming stricter... staying in the USA illegally is an insult to Americans. Illegals have distroyed the relationship between the American Taxpayer and the Hispanic Community.

Try to respect the laws of the USA and maybe the American Taxpayer will again respect you.

Beast

How is this racial profiling if you run EVERYONE applying for a new job through E-Verify ? The computer has no eyes, it cannot see race or skin color, just a name, SSN, and DOB.

I agree that we need biometric info on our Drivers Licenses (facial recognition, fingerprint, retinal scan, etc).

This is doable.

Texan2

So what's your solution Reyes? E-verify is a good first step in solving our immigration crisis. Sure there will be problems at first and it will cost money but I assure you it is much cheaper than doing nothing and living with the status quo.

Mike

Raul A. Reyes

Funny, they offer no evidence that citizens are losing out in their quest to land work picking strawberries, cleaning bathrooms or plucking chickens.

Hay Raul! You did not mention construction and factory work.

Misery

Look at the stock market. It is going down down down. It was going down every time when something anti-immigration had been done in the past.

Immigration is not only the Hispanic issue. It is a priority for other minorities and nationalities. It is sad that Obama is listening to hate groups and racists, and not using his power that was given to him by Working People. Where is Democracy in that?! Or may be he doesn’t care about 4 million American citizen children who lost or about to lose one or both parents. He never cared about immigration reform. He lied to get to the White House, he lied to become a President. Obama has unresolved personal issues with his father leaving him and his mama. He only became a President to proof that his papa was wrong. Obama doesn’t care about people, he enjoys other people sufferings. Vote him out. Obama is just a miserable liar, who even cannot keep his word. Vote him out.

Immigration Act of 1986 blocked a lot of people from adjusting their status. Result: 11 million undocumented residents, 4 million American citizen children who leave in fear of losing parent or both parents, young students who a Americans without documents, spouses of American citizens who are being deported. Republicans enacted that Act to secure a supply of slave labor and ensure that there no way for the "slaves" to become legal. Republicans knew that people were crossing the border, bringing families, having children. They knew about that in 1990, 1991,...2000. What did they do? NOTHING. Instead of revisiting the Immigration Act and fixing it's flaws, They did absolutely NOTHING. Republicans will fight tooth and nail against any legalization because they don't want to be sued by former "slaves" for underpaid wages and inhuman working conditions. Too sad that Obama calls that a Democracy.

Ali

Raul A. Reyes

Funny, they offer no evidence that citizens are losing out in their quest to land work picking strawberries, cleaning bathrooms or plucking chickens.

Hay Raul! You did not mention construction and factory work.

Posted by: Mike
-----------
And working retail, at companies such as Chipotle, Target, and a large grocery chain in the SW, ALL of which were audited by ICE and turned up illegal aliens working under stolen SS numbers alongside Americans and legal immigrants. One of them was a $44,000 a year manager at Chipotle, who moved on to another job earning $40,000 at another fast food company after the ICE audit.

Ali

Immigration Act of 1986 blocked a lot of people from adjusting their status. Result: 11 million undocumented residents, 4 million American citizen children who leave in fear of losing parent or both parents, young students who a Americans without documents, spouses of American citizens who are being deported. Republicans enacted that Act to secure a supply of slave labor and ensure that there no way for the "slaves" to become legal. Republicans knew that people were crossing the border, bringing families, having children. They knew about that in 1990, 1991,...2000. What did they do? NOTHING. Instead of revisiting the Immigration Act and fixing it's flaws, They did absolutely NOTHING. Republicans will fight tooth and nail against any legalization because they don't want to be sued by former "slaves" for underpaid wages and inhuman working conditions. Too sad that Obama calls that a Democracy.

Posted by: Misery
----------
Misery, you got it WRONG. The 1986 Amnesty bill legalized more than 3 million illegal aliens, twice the number we were told, largely because of fraud. We were told if we gave that this amnesty, it would be the LAST one because we would have enforcement of our laws. We the taxpayer were lied to. The illegal aliens you mentioned who are affected by the 1996 bill should NOT have been in the country in the first place, because the enforcement provisions of the 1986 bill should have been carried out. Now, you claim that we should offer yet another amnesty (and we've had several mini ones since 1986) to legalize literally 20 million more people who have broken our laws. Fact is, all amnesty produces is MORE illegal immigration. Illegal aliens will have to learn to accept that if there isn't a way for them to legalize now (such as marriage to a US citizen) then there will not be in the future eithre. That coming here illegally and bringing your kids here illegally or having a kid here will NOT get you legal status. And that living conditions for you and yours will only get worse in the future.

Law Prof

I would like to chime in on a point that several folks have made about what illegal immigrants should do. MLimberg for instance suggests that they go home and apply for a visa to return legally. Surprisngly, many of my students suggest the same thing. However, they are all surprised to learn how difficult (if not impossible) it is for a low-skill worker, especially from latin America, to get a visa. Unless they are lucky enough to have a U.S. citizen relative (unlikely), a graduate degree (more unlikely), or a special preference, such as a major investment or talent, they will NOT be eligible for a visa. So, facing the options of remaining at home with a starving family in a community facing violence and no opportunity, they opt to enter the U.S. using a tourist visa or simply border crossing, and then remaining to work, illegally.

Whether you support or oppose additional enforcement, you should understand that it is the broken immigration laws that we continue to apply that are at the heart of illegal immigration today. Fix those and you will see a very different picture of immigration in the United States.

Ali

I would like to chime in on a point that several folks have made about what illegal immigrants should do. MLimberg for instance suggests that they go home and apply for a visa to return legally. Surprisngly, many of my students suggest the same thing. However, they are all surprised to learn how difficult (if not impossible) it is for a low-skill worker, especially from latin America, to get a visa. Unless they are lucky enough to have a U.S. citizen relative (unlikely), a graduate degree (more unlikely), or a special preference, such as a major investment or talent, they will NOT be eligible for a visa.
--------Law Professor, we admitted 1.1 million legal immigrants last year. Guess what one country accounts for 15-20% of them and has for the past two decades? MEXICO. All due to "family reunification" by parents, adult kids and siblings. Then, there are the guest worker programs such as H2-A and B, the former which admits an unlimited number of unskilled seasonal agricultural workers and the latter which admits 66,000 other unskilled workers. Not to mention that most of the 800,000 legal immigrants admitted under family reunification are also unskilled uneducated workers.

---------Of course, the point re: the Dream Act is that these are high school educated illegal aliens who would be eligible to apply for a NON immigrant student visa if they return to their home countries before age 18 1/2. Even community colleges these days admit foreign students and illegal aliens already attend them. While a student visa is no guarantee of being able to stay here, it does allow a student to be sponsored for H1-B, employment-based green card or other visa. Illegal status does NOT.


So, facing the options of remaining at home with a starving family in a community facing violence and no opportunity, they opt to enter the U.S. using a tourist visa or simply border crossing, and then remaining to work, illegally.
------------Let's see. Someone is irresponsible enough to have children he can't support so comes here? For that matter, Mexico is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and home to the world's richest man, Carlos Slim, as well as 9 or so other billionaires. Now, why shouldn't Mexico take care of its own and maybe some of the rest of Latin America as well. Furthermore about 40% of illegal aliens are visa overstays, that is, some of the better off of their country who have money, property, jobs, and family ties, yet choose to overstay their visas in search of MORE.

Whether you support or oppose additional enforcement, you should understand that it is the broken immigration laws that we continue to apply that are at the heart of illegal immigration today. Fix those and you will see a very different picture of immigration in the United States.
------------No, sir or ma'am, our laws are NOT "broken" but enforcement sure is. You as a lawyer and professor should understand that laws that are not enforced are meaningless. Every time I hear someone say, "our laws are broken", I have to ask, just what do you think they should be? Open borders?
We've given several amnesties since 1986 and all we've gotten is more illegal immigration. We know from experience that AMNESTY is NOT the route to go.

-------- If anything we should eliminate legal immigration by extended family members and emphasize skills and education rather than
family ties. It may surprise you, but the US immigration policy should be for the good of AMERICANS, not immigrants and most certainly not illegal aliens.


Posted by: Law Prof

Law Prof

Ali - might I suggest that you get a passport and spend some quality time in places like El Salvador and Mexico (and I don't mean Cancun)? Your comments suggest that you either don't understand the conditions of developing countries or you fail to consider them "our" problem. Either way, you are ignoring the reality of the world we live in.

weirdo2odriew

Misery -

"Immigration is not only the Hispanic issue. It is a priority for other minorities and nationalities. It is sad that Obama is listening to hate groups and racists, and not using his power that was given to him by Working People. Where is Democracy in that?!"

You might want to go back to school and learn just how our government works. In reading your rant I get the impression that you think the president has some sort of magical powers and can just grant a blanket amnesty, but only Congress has this power. One of the primary duties of the president is to ensure that laws passed by Congress are enforced by the government and in regards to illegal immigration all president's have failed to do this since the 1986 amnesty was passed.

The reason there has not been another mass amnesty is because The People have overwelmingly rose up and told members of Congress NO. Congress would like nothing better than to get rid of this issue the same way they got rid of it last time but our electorate is much more informed and tired of their lying ways.

Also, the "Working People" did not give the president any powers. The presidents powers are defined by our Constitution, which also defines Congress' powers and the Judicial Branch's powers. You and whatever Socialist party you belong to only helped elect this president, nothing more. It appears you believe in a type of 'democracy' that the likes of Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro use which isn't democracy at all. If you want to live under a dictatorship I suggest you find a way to immigrate to one but I would advise you not to try entering illegally.

Ali

Ali - might I suggest that you get a passport and spend some quality time in places like El Salvador and Mexico (and I don't mean Cancun)? Your comments suggest that you either don't understand the conditions of developing countries or you fail to consider them "our" problem. Either way, you are ignoring the reality of the world we live in.

Posted by: Law Prof
-------------
Law Professor, I'm Arab-American and have lived in places every bit as bad as those you describe, and certainly poorer. Egypt and Turkey come to mind. You should try looking elsewhere than south and realize that 5 billion people live in greater poverty than Mexicans. You are the one ignoring the reality of the world we live in, especially if you seriously expect that the US can remedy
world poverty by taking in all the world's poor. Time for Mexico and other countries to assume responsibility for their own fates. In fact, who needs even high school educated illegal aliens more than their home countries?

Tim Bowman

Debatable statistics provided by both sides notwithstanding, not using E-Verify is but an advocacy for illegal alien employment. No system is perfect or foolproof, but this is better than previous options, and dedicated effort to remove the rewards of illegal immigration is one of the best ways to curb it.

riposter

"Although I do not support illegal immigration or the hiring of undocumented workers..."

Yeah, right. It is so disingenuous when pro-illegal immigration advocates like Reyes and the LA Times complain about the failure of E-verify to prevent some employment of illegal immigrants as an excuse not to use a system that prevents some of that employment.

Of course any system that simply relies on the accuracy of it's databases while failing to use tools to detect those falsely present themselves as the real people in the system will fail in that regard.

From the cited study: http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/E-Verify/E-Verify/Final%20E-Verify%20Report%2012-16-09_2.pdf

"The inaccuracy rate for unauthorized workers is the percentage of workers without employment authorization found to be employment authorized. These inaccuracies are primarily due to identity fraud that occurs when workers without employment authorization provide employers with identity information for work-authorized persons."

But I'm also curious over just how the determination was made as to the rate of erroneous authorization of ineligible employees. Accuracy rates for Tenative Non-confirmations of eligible workers are knowable because those erroneously identified can and probably will correct that. But when someone is wrongly given an authorization to work, what process would lead to the discovery of that other than some identity-fraud investigation because of a complaint by its victim?

While the Supreme Court rightly said that those who just use made up identities shouldn't be prosecuted for identity fraud, those who steal the real identities of legal workers should be vigorously prosecuted. And much of it could be detected through the applications of algorithms to existing databases.

 
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