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Catholics and gays: Closer than you think

A new study by the Public Religion Research Institute  is titled: "Catholic Attitudes on Gay and Lesbian Issues."

Among the findings:


Catholics are more supportive of legal recognition of same-sex relationships than members of any other Christian tradition and Americans overall. Nearly three-quarters of Catholics favor either allowing gay and lesbian people to marry (43%) or allowing them to form civil unions (31%). Only 22% of Catholics say there should be no legal recognition of a gay couple's relationship.

When same-sex marriage is defined explicitly as a civil marriage, support is dramatically higher among Catholics. If marriage for gay couples is defined as a civil marriage "like you get at city hall," Catholic support for allowing gay couples to marry increases by 28 points, from 43% to 71%.

Catholics overwhelmingly reject the idea that sexual orientation can be changed. Nearly 7 in 10 (69%) disagree that homosexual orientation can be changed. Fewer than 1 in 4 (23%) believe that it can be changed.

A majority of Catholics (56%) believe that sexual relations between two adults of the same gender [are] not a sin. Among the general population, less than half (46%) believe it is not a sin.

 You have to read the report to get the nuances, but these points suggest that many Catholics are out of step with the hierarchy on these issues -- or vice versa.

--Michael McGough

 

Comments () | Archives (40)

The comments to this entry are closed.

jack

I'd go for the 'vice versa' option.

Nono

Well, what do you expect out of a Catholic? As devout Christians, Catholics should emulate Christ and follow his teachings -- which is to love everyone as children of one, the same God. In fact, if we were to judge Christ in today's morals and standard, we could say that Christ, who was a 32-year old single man with no known girlfriend and who was always in the company of 12 men, was definitely gay.

Michael Roberts

Considering most Catholic priests are gay, this shouldn't surprise anybody.

Steve

Don't you believe the polls that say that most Americans support gay marriage. Polls have consistently been proven to understate US opposition to homosexuality and gay marriage.

Sabrina

One has to question just how "Catholic" are the respondents, really? I noticed there is no information on much they practise their Catholic faith are i.e. how often they go to Mass? If they were educated in parochial schools? Trust me, it does make a difference. There is an attitude out there of 'once Catholic always Catholic' even if in reality the 'Catholic' person may be involved in another religious tradition or not believers at all. Example? I was raised Catholic, went to parochials schools but am now converting to the Eastern Orthodox Church. Anyway, there are many lax and fallen away Catholics who haven't darkened the doors of a church in decades, but yet they will stay claim to be "Catholic" but they're usually just Catholic in name only (CINO.) I'd say if the survey takers went back and spoke to those who are active in their parishes, meaning they go to Mass WEEKLY and support the teachings of the Church, then they'd get very different answers.

Sabrina

@Nono. People with that sort of attitude have their brains in their genitals. It's not always about sex , you know.

robert

For about 50 % of the population (men), genitals frequently override the brain. This happens when an attractive women, or a picture of one, is seen by about 97 % of the male population. Please use your power wisely.

Pablo LA

I am Latino (I am not catholic but it seems that everybody else in the community is) and couldn't believe the article when I read it. But after thinking I realized that there's a big difference between Catholicism and Catholics. Most Catholics I know see themselves as such but disagree deeply with the Pope's views of the world and his teachings. They believe in a God and in Christ. Most of them don't even go to church often because they don't like what they hear. Though they still call themselves Catholics. Even my partner belongs to that group.

dee

@sabrina: By your 'standard', my middle-aged sister (educated in catholic grade/high schools & secular university) who attends mass, is active in her parish, and chaperones university students on religious pilgrimages should not accept gay marriage. But two of her best friends are a married lesbian couple--also catholic and also active in their parish. One example, but I have many more.
Years ago I noticed a difference between mediterranean catholic immigrants and US-born catholics. The former were deeply religious, but also had a profound awareness of both human frailty and god's grace/love, while the latter stuck to rules. Maybe we're getting more 'European' in some parishes, and so evolving that sense of grace and love with our devotions. You just can't generalize, and I think the survey shows a great disconnect between dogma and faith.

contraryjim

They both wish to force their views on others and get government to help.

Katie Murphy

If your church raped your children you might still see yourself as catholic but not go to church.

Slowly the catholic people are wising up to the horrors of the hierarchy.

Go to www.catholicarrogance.org to see so many horrors perpetrated on humanity in the name of someone who simply commanded all of us to love thy neighbor as thyself.

And then, if u have a strong stomach go to www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

To understand the church that speaks in "absolutes", as did another man.

And then you will also begin to unravel the smokescreen of the church about protecting life.

MACDONALD BANK

Faxed to President Obama:

The evil writings in Leviticus 18:22 … against gays – depicts: “P” … “priestly rules” & expanded by the pope; homophobes and religious frauds … to attack the gay community and never meant to apply to the public -- but to priests. Leviticus exists in the old testament & torah … & was written long after Moses -- 600BC.

How would you like it … if hate speech was directed to your brother or sister as you sat in the pew; spewed by some better than thou religious lunatic with a hateful black book about Leviticus -- under his arm?

The pope and churches fully aware that Leviticus 18:22 applies only to priests refuse to remove this stigma maliciously persecuting gays. Kids bullied into suicide …! Being black or left-handed or being gay is just as natural.
If the black community or women had it written that they should be put to death; how would they like that?
Churches are committing hate crimes and more succinctly a violent criminal offence against a federally protected minority namely the gay community. It is actually a bigger moment in history … gays standing up for equality … soldiers being discharged are indeed exposing something far greater ... the realization that there is something far more evil at work -- hateful religion which should be discharged from society -- period.

There is no scientific evidence to prove any of the cross related bogus elements of christianity. Our early human ancestors; on this earth … go back more than 6 million years … 5,996,000 years before the Greeks, Romans and the Jews. Christianity is basically a 2011 year old fictional cult.
In the year 300 AD when Emperor Constantine, who to some was the first pope; went on to fabricate & market Christianity - a fantasy - which turned out to be one of the most hateful & evil concoctions ever perpetrated on the world.
Einstein stated in a letter recently auctioned that the bible was a collection of primitive legends. He said believing in God was childish and he as a Jew is no different than another person and are not chosen by God. Do you want to be lambs at the slaughter or be wise and reject religious cultist manipulation? Mean & nasty; run by evil and bogus religious cults from Rome or wherever. Is this the world you want? The pope talks about ending prejudice and hate; what a hypocrite! Religion is a crutch for the insecure.
Appreciate every day and if there is no tomorrow; then know that you were fortunate to have lived on this earth!
Perhaps the irony might be -- that the bogus hogus pogus hate-speech based on hateful leviticus 18:22 -- might bring the bible and torah into a banned status and the churches and synagogues shut down!

I am the son of a catholic father who never went to church and a protestant mother who took us to church and Sunday school. Onward christian soldiers; I think not. Such absolute drivel. To be manipulated by a santa claus; an easter bunny and worst of all a bogus cross?

It is a sometimes rare occurrence to fall in Love and to hold that person in your heart and be loved in return ... it is something that should be celebrated! If it is between two guys or girls all the better. It takes even more courage to defend that LOVE!

It’s now time to shut down the churches & synagogues with bibles with leviticus 18:22. Religion and the churches should now be exposed as a bigoted structure that gets away with hate mongering. It is a criminal offence to cause harm onto others physically or with written items … bibles have been getting away with this for ages. Tony Perkins and his The Family Research Council's opposition to gay rights have landed the outfit onto a list of "hate groups,” like the KKK. Christian colleges should be classified as hate groups and shut down.

This holier than thou – written so there it shall be -- fallacy; must be stopped!
It is a criminal offence to cause harm onto others physically or with written items … the bible and torah have been getting away with this for ages.
This bogus religious filth should be banned. It exists as a tax exempt structure which discriminates against human rights. The pope, bishops and mormons are cult members promoting discrimination against minorities. Perhaps religious establishments have pushed too far from San Francisco to Saskatchewan -- and it may backfire to such a degree that the churches should be shut down!

It is written; so therefore it shall be? We are the chosen people? Such a wicked fantasy. To see the religious lunatics manipulate government and our lives is shameful. According to biblical law, a father can sell his daughter as a slave.

Bibles and the torah which includes leviticus 18:22 -- should be immediately banned … for promoting hatred against minorities … namely the gay community and the crosses removed from all schools and churches.

The Right Honourable Prime Minister of Canada Jean Chretien told the Vatican that there was to be no cross erected over the Canadian Parliament buildings figuratively speaking; when the Pope demanded the Prime Minister go against gay rights. An Alberta bishop had the audacity to say that The Canadian Prime Minister would go to hell for going against the church. Such outrageous evil threats. The Right Honourable Prime Minister in return; basically told the Pope to go to Hell! The Honourable Irwin Cotler, Canadian Minister of Justice, stood for equal rights for the gay community. With reference to protecting the children: The Honourable Hedy Fry, member of the Canadian Liberal Parliament, who happens to be a doctor who delivered many babies; spoke eloquently to defend the rights of babies being born and stated that she was in fact defending their rights by speaking on behalf of equal rights for the children and youth of the future -- defending their integrity and dignity.

United States is supposedly fighting for democracy but within the U.S. they treat gays like secondary citizens.

One should appreciate each day of life and not expect another.

By enjoying their tax exempt status and benefits from the state it also puts churches at the mercy of the state; to be forced to adhere to the human rights laws. Religion is thriving like a cancerous growth on society that should be stopped in its tracks; outlawed & banned.

Minority rights must be decided by a dignified judicial system and/or a compassionate government.
Tell them to take that cross and shove it where the sun don't shine and pay their taxes along the way before they take that cross down forever with its final station; extinction.
The Vatican basically supported Hitler and religion is responsible for more corruption and violence in the world. Pope Ratzinger was involved in the Nazi youth. The Pope with his blatant witchcraft related to the bible and its hateful beliefs; tries to rule with extreme prejudice against a world … that may fall victim to religions' absolute evil. Many theologians state quite correctly that the birth; crucifixion; resurrection and other elements of christianity actually didn’t even happen! The pope is running a bigger fraud than Madoff’s $20 billion ripoff. Today’s evangelical extremists are like the nazis who cast others into ovens & are actually supremacists - who practice their bogus hocus pocus - and are trying to suppress and deprive others of their happiness and their legal rights in an open and proud society.

A great story pertains to a boy at a catholic school in Oshawa, Ontario who wanted to take his boyfriend to his school prom. The evil catholic school forbids this. A father of one of the boys is an employee with General Motors Canada and the courageous union leader Buzz Hargrove stood up for the boys’ rights. The boy took his case through the courts and because the evil catholic school was benefiting from government funding which demands equal rights void of discrimination; the judge ordered the school to allow the two young boys to attend together. Their limo arrived at their prom with adoring onlookers.
To think of Matthew Shepard choking on his own blood after being savagely beaten; virtually sanctioned by the church is evil beyond comprehension; yet is the same as boys being bullied into suicide; most likely being supported by the bullies parents’ religious cults. Bigotry and hatemongering against gays should be banned.
Abused gay people should definitely talk to or write to their parents; friends; teachers & school principal ... about the issue. Your story may save another person!
A special compliment to the Parents … Mothers , Fathers and other family members who have stood up for their sons, daughters, nieces and nephews who may be facing identity issues as they enter their teens … possibly being bullied; when in fact being gay or bi is totally natural.
My father fought at the front on D-Day in Normandy … through the Battle of the Scheldt to Germany and grandfather was a Sgt. Major at Vimy. My Dad who was a catholic -- is alive today at 87 and doesn’t believe in santa claus -- an easter bunny or any of that bogus cross related filth.

Alan Turing broke the code for the enigima machine in World War II and was gay and was persecuted by religious lunatics – and he committed suicide. Prime Minister Brown recently apologized on behalf of the UK.

Jeff R

I am somewhat surprised. And quite pleased.

Alan Yost, SJ

@Katie Murphy -- "If your church raped your children" ??? Could you possibly misuse generalizations more egregiously? Trying inserting any other organized group of people to see how silly a clause that is. Eg. "If the teachers' union raped your children..." or "If Sicily raped your children..." or "If the American hockey league raped your children..." That mode of reasoning and argumentation does nobody any good.

Ken

This speaks of the ignorance of most Americans who do not simply have never taken the time to understand the correct, authentic teaching of the Catholic Church on homosexuality and those who are homosexual, and have instead relied on the LA Times to develop their understanding of Catholic moral teaching. The little "article" (I would call it an op-ed piece) is very much like a "straw man" attack: Spend years writing articles that construct the Catholic Church to be a hater of gays, then, later report that "surprise!", the Catholic Church actually does not hate gays. As for the bigoted, anti-Catholic responses following, not worthy of comment.

robg

This poll surprised me somewhat. Though I have to admit in the high population zones of Cali it seems as tho this fits well. I can't speak of the rest of the country, but it fits the population of idiots who claim holy then thou in my area.

If readers find the source poll I believe they have church attendance listed in it.

Norm Silver

Until I see an official response to this topic from the Vatican this all just idle gossip. There isn't even a creditable US Catholic Bishops source quoted here. The informational sources are not really speaking with any authority.

Schteve

@Alan Yost, SJ

While I agree with you completely that Katie's comment was overboard, I believe she was trying to reference specific sex scandals that have happened with the Catholic Church. Conversely, you don't hear many news stories about teachers, Sicilians, or hockey players having sex with children (okay, maybe you do about teachers).

Katherine

The Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, consists of those who believe in him and accept him as Lord and Savior according to the nuns I had in Catholic school. People do not realize those who call themselves Catholic are usually people who follow Christ, not Joseph Ratzinger (aka Benedict XVI). I am tired of being not considered a Christian because I am a part of the Catholic denomination. Wise up Protestants, there was only the Catholic Church until the 9th century, when the eastern half decided their head was the Bishop of Constantinople, not the Bishop of Roman. The great "Protestant" revolution was not until the 16th century.
As far as gays and lesbians, they are also children of God and loved by him. God does not discriminate. The anti-homosexual attitude of St. Paul (Christ himself never says anything about homosexuality so apparently it was not an issue with him) was a cultural thing. There was a high infant mortality rate, and any sexual activity that did not have the potential of producing children was looked down upon. Actually Paul was anti-sex, as he said it is best that people be as him (celebrate) but better to marry than to burn. Take him with a grain of salt. Paul also says that women should have their heads covered (as the only women who didn't wear veils during that era were prostitutes) and that women should not speak in the churches but ask their husbands afterwards (this was because then women were uneducated and would interrupt the sermons with questions so it was just a matter of moving the ceremony along without interruptions). When I was in Catholic school women had to have something on their head when they entered a Catholic church. If you didn't have a hat, then you wore a scarf or sometimes a woman would pin a handerkeif on her head. I don't see any women at church wearing anything on their head anymore. The church is finally getting educated enough to realize the difference between theology and the culture at the time of the beginning of Christianity. Christ said you cannot find him in buildings of wood and stone. He is within you and all around you.

Kenny

Katharine...thank you for finally being a "voice" of reason...Typically, I've seen more of a "love the sinner, hae the sin" mentality, than outright hatred of homosexuals. The same cannot be said for gay advocates, for if you dare disagree on any points ( as evidence, read the statements above), you are bashed unmercifully and labeled a homophobe (Incidentally, yet another force-feeding of a made up liberal definition of a word. Phobia= fear, not hatred).

Jeff Davis

Wow, some good news on the religious front! Faith, as Vatican II made abundantly clear, is a matter of personal conscience, not submission to institutional dogma. As a practicing Catholic of over forty years, and a gay man in an over thirty-year relationship, I can't begin to explain my excitement at hearing about these polls. They are certainly in line with what I experience in the Church. Not that I expect the hierarchy of the institutional church to pay any mind, but then I haven't expected much of them for most of my adult life.

As the fundamentalists say: thank you, Jesus!

Dave

@Sabrina -- click on the link at the start of the article. That will lead you to the actual report. They actually do provide a breakdown according to church attendance. The percentage of those opposed to any form of legal recognition of same-gender relationships for all Catholics is 22%. The percentage of those attending one or more times per week is higher, but still is only 31%. The large majority of actively-practicing Catholics do support either the right to marry or have a civil union.

Dave

@Ken: this may be more about Catholics rejecting certain Church teachings than not understanding them.

@Norm: this is a report by a respected polling organization describing what Catholics in this country believe. It is not in any sense gossip, and it is not dealing with factual information requiring any sort of assent by U.S. Bishops or the Vatican. It's about what the attitudes of U.S. Catholics are, not what the Church hierarchy says they should be.

Chris

Real Catholic = you agree with me

Dave

@Chris: Official Church teaching may be that "Real Catholic = you agree with me" but I suspect that is one of the official Church teachings that many Catholics in the pews disagree with. Very confusing. One of the reasons I'm glad I'm Protestant.

markinbakersfield

Michael Roberts- Your comment is disgusting and shows how uneducated you are. Even Catholic Bishops admit that the vast majority of pedophiles are married men. being gay has nothing to do with being a pedophile. Grow up.

Chris F

There are several important issues that need to be addressed to ground the commentary here back in reality. The first of which -something that is always overlooked, ignored, or intentionally manipulated- is the distinction between disapproving of homosexuality and condemning homosexuality. The Church does take the position that homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle, and therefore does not condone such behavior, yet the Church also teaches constant forgiveness and tolerance. In other words, the Catholic dogmatic position is to tolerate and be compassionate towards gays, but not to condone their lifestyle. The Church teaches that we are all sinners, each and every one of us, and yet we are to be compassionate towards those around us. Maybe some disagree that homosexuality is sinful, but the tenets of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant, disapprove of homosexuality. This view is overwhelming and is the mainstream world opinion. The Church, in line with this view, is nothing malevolently out of the norm. Perhaps you can push-back against the idea that homosexuality is a sin, I suppose that is a purely subjective position, but you cannot realistically argue that the Church is intolerant of gays, or engages in any teachings that would encourage open hostility or harassment of gays. The Church is not homophobic (what is there to fear?) nor does it align with any form of hatred towards gays. Given this, it is entirely unremarkable that a poll of 'Catholics' would show that we're not marching the streets in search of gays to lynch.

As for the snarky comments about the Church hierarchy being out of touch with the Catholic constituency, I would argue that morality is not, nor should it be, subject to public opinion. What is wrong one day remains wrong the next. The Church should be applauded, not mocked, for its opposition to moral relativism. I know there are those of you who might disagree with Catholic doctrine on contraceptives or homosexuality and would argue that the Church should follow the lead of Catholic lay opinion. Yet, I would suspect that you would not be applauding the Church for following public opinion if that opinion were against social justice theory, or especially something more extreme, such as advocating social isolation of gays, etc. The point being, either the Church stands by its convictions, regardless of public opinion, and is applauded for it. Or, the Church caves to public opinion and "morality" is held hostage to the flighty whims of mass opinion, sometimes mass hysteria. That's a pandora's box I doubt many want to open.

MikeD

Not surprised, I (not Catholic) went to a Catholic University in a conservative town (Spokane) and overall it was very accepting - and this was almost 20 years ago!

However until the Vatican agrees it is pointless. Especially with the Vatican now complaining to the UN that critics of gay people are under attack. The Catholic church continues to be the most hypocritically hateful corporations on earth.

Finally, why do we care what religions think about marriage? Marriage is not a religious institution plain and simple. As long as government is involved in marriage and as long as atheist are allowed to marry it never will be.

John Cruiserj

Biggest load of crap yet. You don't join the KKK if you think blacks deserve equal rights, and you don't join the Catholic Church if you think gay people deserve equal rights. Why people CONTINUE to support organizations "they claim" do not represent their values is beyond me.

The Catholic Church is run by an ex-Nazi who harbors pedophiles. That alone should make you think twice!

Baffled Observer

Since Vatican II, Catholic teaching has to do with personal sin as a violation of the individual conscience. Since gays presumably don't regard their orientation as wrong, it would not be a sin. (Incidentally, I don't regard it as wrong either, but I don't think my opinion matters.)

Can we hold the cheap shots about Catholic priests? The actions of some of them have been sinful and criminal, but there are plenty of non-Catholic pedophiles. I've known inspiring priests and ones that weren't good for my spiritual path, and a few saintly ones. Let's not lump the good guys with the bad--it's very unfair.

Chris F

MikeD, John Cruiser-

You do yourself and your prejudicial cause a great disservice by touting false propaganda and hyperbole as intellectual discourse. You may win the approval of a few fellow myopic simpletons, but for those of intellectual honesty your falsehoods only discredit you and your agenda. Here's a tip, if you wish to delegitimize the Catholic Church and its 1+ billion adherents, you would do well to limit your criticisms to reality. Calling the Church the most "hypocritically hateful corporations(sic) on earth" is an intellectually lazy analysis that smacks of hyperbole. What of Social Justice Theory? What of the millions of Catholic run hospitals, orphanages, schools, etc worldwide? What of the fact that the Church is the single largest charitable organization in the world? You cannot critique the Church without mentioning these unless you intend to present yourself as a hateful fool. As for this, "The Catholic Church is run by an ex-Nazi who harbors pedophiles," again, intellectually lazy at best, yet more likely intentionally misleading. You probably know this and ignored it to serve your prejudicial agenda, but Pope Benedict (Joseph Ratzinger) was NOT a member of the Nazi Party, he was, as a young boy growing up in Germany, conscripted into the Hitler Youth Movement. This was mandatory as per German law that at the age of 14 all German boys were conscripted. Ratzinger refused to attend meetings and his own cousin, also 14, was taken away to a concentration camp by the Nazi regime because he had Down Syndrome. Ratzinger was staunchly against Hitler's regime, to call him a Nazi because of his mandatory service in the Hitler Youth is profoundly misleading, in fact no, it's simply a blatant character assassination with no truth whatsoever. It's malicious and demonstrates that your anti-Catholic rant has no merit to it.

Chris F

Baffled,

Logic, reason, and fact play no part in many's assault on the Church. The presence of even one pedophile in the priesthood is enough to tar the entire clergy in the eyes of these bigots. Pointing out to these people that the rate of pedophilia among Catholic clergy is less than the general population and less than, for example, teachers does little to assuage their contempt for anything Catholic. It is a talking-point and it plays well with their fellow bigoted, prejudicial miscreants. It's a similar strategy as that used to denounce Islam, Muslims are 'terrorists,' etc. etc.

Chris F

Cardinal Mahoney:

"Like a lot of Catholic people, we were torn. There are many gay Catholics, and many of our people have family members who are homosexual. While we support enshrining the biblical tradition of marriage, we didn't want to be part of any attack on homosexuals. So when people tried to make the campaign for Prop. 8 an attack on homosexuals, we couldn't be part of it."

frank carter

Catholics and gays: Closer than you think

ANS: nice to know that most Catholics support gays unions, although no one has ask me I guess it's alright. The Aid's mortality keeps rising and we keep encouraging this people to go into an early grave. I should not be surprised if sooner or later there is a revision, and a correction in the Bible concerning Homosexuality. I had several relatives that have died of Aid's but who cares, I have seen them diminish & dwindle in size of the infliction they incurred for the sake of love or was it lust?

What really bothers me well in a way it does when they say that Christ never said anything about Gays? THE BIBLE:
These writings are the very breath of God. All Scripture is inspired by God and in case you don't know it, Jesus is God and the Bible is Jesus Christ.

Alan Yost, SJ

@Schteve: No, you don't hear much about other groups abusing children. But please don't let that fool you into thinking that it doesn't happen, and in many cases with a far higher frequency than amongst Catholic clergy. It's just that those other groups don't titillate the news-seeking public as much.

Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not trying to justify what happened in the Catholic Church as OK, because it happened less often here than elsewhere. It's hideous anywhere. But if people complacently make it only a problem of Catholic clergy, then all of society is missing an opportunity to ferret out this heinous offense wherever it occurs. If there's any way that the Catholic scandal can be redeemed, that is to say, if good can somehow come of all this, I firmly believe it will be in making people see what they dread seeing, no matter where it occurs and who the perpetrator is, and in that way fewer and fewer kids will become victimized. If that can happen, then any hits the Church takes will be worth it.

Dave

@Frank Carter -- actually, I think you statistics are off. In America, at least, the number of new cases and the number of deaths per year have been pretty flat. The mortality rate has actually declined. I'm not sure that's true worldwide, but of course, worldwide AIDS is transmitted primarily by heterosexual intercourse.

Robert Hagedorn

According to the story, God did make Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. But Adam and Steve could have done exactly the same thing Adam and Eve did. Do a search: The First Scandal. Then click twice.

Patrick Schofield

The very thought that the bible should be rewritten by man to satisfy the whims of a social group is foolishness. Were the writters of the bible just kidding when they wrote "Any man who lays down with another man will never see the gates of Heaven?" I know that it is becoming more accepted by the general population. Actually the thought of being anti-gay is concidered old fashioned these days. I do not, and never will hate rhe person doing the sin, but I will continue to hate the sin itself. I do not judge anyone for their actions. I have far too many sins thar were commited by me that to judge would be a joke. I don't have to approve of what others do, but I do have to love them with all my heart.

John Murray

hiiii xD

John Murray

Joey Philips is mean Dx


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