Honduran leaders vs. the ticking clock
August 12, 2009 | 11:26
am
In an editorial today, the Times admonishes the leaders of the Honduran coup for dragging their feet, despite efforts by President Obama and the Organization of American States to reinstate President Manuel Zelaya. The coupsters seem to be playing the waiting game until the scheduled November elections, but the editorial board sides with most Latin American countries in saying that this won't do:
Leaders of the interim government fear that if
Zelaya were returned to power, he would renege on his word or that his
ally, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, would somehow intervene. That's
why they hope to hold out until the November election. They believe
that once the vote is deemed free and fair, all will be forgiven and
Honduras can start the new year with a clean slate.
But Latin American governments have already said this won't do. And the Obama administration must make perfectly clear that it would not go along either. Together, they must convince the Honduran coup leaders that this misguided strategy will not restore legitimacy and will not resolve the country's internal divisions or external isolation.
But Latin American governments have already said this won't do. And the Obama administration must make perfectly clear that it would not go along either. Together, they must convince the Honduran coup leaders that this misguided strategy will not restore legitimacy and will not resolve the country's internal divisions or external isolation.
What do you think? Leave a comment!
Ok I am tried of reading that people saying what was done, was wrong. If the supreme court, and the congress says he broke the law, and need to be removed, then what is the problem? It would be the same in any Democratic country. In the USA it is called " checks and balances" this is the reason for the different branches of governement, so if one branch goes off course, and tries to break the rules of the country, and the people (AKA.. "The Constitution") . From what I read in the Honduras Constitution, the president can not even ask the congress to have the referendum, only congress can present this, at the request of the people of Honduras. The reason for this was so the president could not stay for life, we all remember history, Honduras was smart about making sure that did not happen there in the future. My point is, just think about it all before speaking. In your country would you expect anything less of your president than respect the office he holds. If the call from the people is loud enough congress would present the option to extend the president term limits. But Zelaya's main job as president is to respect and defend his country and it laws, and Constitution, not break them.
There is still a chance for the term limits to be removed, if the people want this. But as for Zelaya he has already broken the rules of the Constitution, and caused this problem in Honduras, he should return to face the courts, and do what is right. And for other countries out there, maybe you should take a look at your Constitution's and make sure you remember yours also.
Posted by: tpatriot | September 02, 2009 at 06:39 PM
I don't understand what the fuss is about. Zelaya never broke any law. He was simply trying to prepare a "consultative" referendum on the future of convening a constitutional assembly. In essence, it's an opinion poll on whether or not the Honduran people want to enter into a process to modify the constitution. It's not binding! In any case, the people of Honduras have little direct involvement in their political process due to a constitution that was written in 1982, during the Reagan years that allows the political and economic elites to hold power without much involvement from the people.
What I don't understand is why he (Zelaya) was ousted the day before the referendum. Or rather I do understand why, but it's sad that people don't see the very real threat that it implies to Honduran democracy going forward. How can any government be legitimate when a democratically elected president is ousted by force? If that's the case, then any time we don't like someone's policies, we can do the same. Isn't that what we are saying by backing Micheletti and his group? I simply cannot support such actions. If you didn't like Zelaya's idea of a referendum, then you simply vote him out in the next election. But the truth is that Michelletti and his group were really afraid of the support the referendum was going to receive. After all, if anything we have learned elsewhere in Latin America, is that people want more direct involvement in the political process. Stop impeding progress! Let the people decide. No more military coups!
Posted by: Rodolfo | August 26, 2009 at 04:52 PM
Greetings! Fact is Zelaya was in a power grab wishing to sneak in a coup against the Hondurans through trampling all over the Honduran Constitution illegally.
Quoting emh below:
>>>According to Gallup poll, only 30% of the population support the government de facto. The rest of the population wants to reinstate the institutionalized democracy. The Country is being held hostage by fascist thugs.
Posted by: emh | August 12, 2009 at 06:38 PM<<<
Where was that Gallup poll taken for it was not taken in Honduras! The majority of the people are supporting the Honduran government, but probably only around 30% (at most) are supportive of Zelaya! Could you provide the link to this poll for it is not true of what is the fact in Honduras.
Thanks!
Kay
PS... I know what is going on in Honduras~ I am from Utila Bay Islands, Honduras and a naturalized citizen of the USA. I keep up with the news and know my facts in reference to back home.
Posted by: Ula Kay Morgan | August 18, 2009 at 08:14 PM
I am SO FED UP WITH the media. Completeley biased portrayal of the news. I would be embarrased to call myself a reporter if I wrote stuff like this...
Example on Reuters:
"Honduran police clash again with Zelaya supporters
Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:04pm EDT"
meaning the police are abusing the poor protester... yet later in the article it explains:
"Protests on Tuesday and Wednesday by pro-Zelaya activists left broken windows at shops and fast-food restaurants and sent demonstrators fleeing clouds of tear gas. It was one of the few times the near-daily rallies have turned violent since the coup"
What did they expect? if you are vandalizing and commiting acts of terrorism the police HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO INSTILL ORDER!!! They would do so in the USA and noone would question it!
And to the Pro-Mel writers, I'm curious:
Some of you write that you want to fight corruption and want a true democracy yet you support a corrupt, wanna be dictator that thinks the Constitution is so bad it should be rewritten... how is that duality possible? And then you also want to oppose free elections in November? please explain this to me because i do not understand how you can support democracy and love Honduras yet at the same time support a corrupt leader who is instigating civil war and does not care if it detroys the country and all the poor people in it!
You claim Mel is "for the poor" so he should be let back in... Is that the new code word for getting a jail free card? Proclaim you are "for the poor" because it give you the right to be above the law! Yeah Great democracy you're going to build on that principal.
FED UP!
Posted by: Fed Up | August 18, 2009 at 07:30 PM
Please think? You are saying that the goverment elected in Spain to end Franco's goverment was not legal, and then nobody should recognize any goverment elected in Spain after that , or are you saying that the goverment elected in Chile while Pinochette was running the goverment was not legal .???? are you insane. if the honduran people go to elections and vote for a new goverment NO BODY IN THE WORLD CAN SAY THAT IT IS ILEGAL. WE ARE A FREE COUNTRY
Posted by: VICTOR PERELLO | August 17, 2009 at 11:00 PM
I can't believe the rationalization Americans make for Zelaya.
He wasn't ousted because of the minimum wage. If he'd not tried his antics, he'd still be there, minimum wage and all. This wasn't an 'excuse', he clearly was willing to violate a dictate from the Supreme Court. Several of them.
It is also perfectly legitimate to link him to Chavez. Where were the ballots printed? Honduras? No. Venezuela. What country tried to fly him back into Honduras? Venezuela. Who has been threatening to send troops to attack Honduras? Venezuela. Zelaya is Robin to his Chavez' Batman.
Keep in mind that the liberal party is also behind his ouster. The ones that helped make the minimum wage hike happen. This is not a "rich versus Zelaya", it's EVERYONE including half the people who voted for him versus Zelaya.
Some people think that socialism = democracy and the ends justifies the means. Rationalize away, but as long as Honduras goes through with elections in November, we need to be cautiously supportive of this transition.
Posted by: John Ashman | August 17, 2009 at 05:36 PM
My comment is this.
America, back off and let Honduras have it's independence. They have governed according to their Constitution. Pres. Obama doesn't even care about our Constitution let alone Honduras's! Forcing Zelaya back into the country is the wrong thing to do. The OAS has no authority in this matter. Zelaya incited this problem and so he is to blame. His integrity is not to be trusted as evidenced by his unlawful actions. The other problem is obvious, the socialists of the world don't like Honduras to be FREE.
Posted by: old_aldy | August 17, 2009 at 10:02 AM
It is amazing how a project even before becoming is a violation of the law. Zelaya never held a referedum, he was asking the people of Honduras if they wanted a proposition on the Ballot in November. If people disagree with the ballot proposition, then campaign against it. Obviously the Oligarchy and most of the people writing here are the rich who have internet access and have kept the people in their abject poverty for so long. Except it was a grave error as the forces of the people and Zelaya hismelf will prevail whether in November or within the next 4 years. The COUP and it was one, only highlighted the divide between the Upper class and Lower classes of Honduran society. The Revolution is now underway, there is no turning back unfortunately. All you fools on here who are singing power to the Michelletis of Honduras, will one day have to get on a plane and head to South Florida. The irony of it all is that the revolution started with one of you, Zelaya is far from being a communist, a rich rancher from a landed family, who would have thought that (remind me of reading about a certain Dr. Guevara to just name one). Support Democracy and the Ballot, fight Zelaya at the Ballot Box not with Bayonet and Bullets.
Posted by: Daniel | August 16, 2009 at 06:15 PM
Yes, agree that ONLY the citizens of Honduras should decide the future of the country, but this alone will not be possible because my country is dominated internally and externally by foreigners that have only taken advantage of Honduras for many years. To say that the elections will fix everything, I really doubt it. If elections take place with the current so called government, even the poorest uneducated campesino in Honduras will know that this elections are controlled by a group of corrupt people that will make every effort to put someone that they approve of in power. And I agree that the media is showing very little of what is really happening in Honduras
Posted by: Betsy | August 16, 2009 at 05:20 PM
"On November 29, 2009, we, the citizens of HONDURAS and ONLY the citizens of HONDURAS will decide what kind of Government we want. Latin America , USA and the rest of the world, has NO RIGHT to interfere in our internal business and has NO RIGHT to force HONDURAS to take a President that we DO NOT WANT! . Ex President Zelaya
has earned the title of "traitor" for trying to change and re-write our sacred Constitution which is illegal in our country . STAY OUT OF OUR BUSINESS! WE DO NOT WANT TO BECOME ANOTHER CUBA!!!
You got it my friend?... You got it??....Good! "
AMEN!! Ms Newman
Posted by: Hector 'Honduran' Contreras | August 16, 2009 at 02:53 PM
The only mistake made, in retrospect, by the so-called "de facto" government of Honduras was flying Zelaya out of the country. If they had jailed the President removing him from office legally otherwise according to their Constitution, there would have been absolutely no grounds for international interference. As it stands, it appears to me to be a minor tactical error. He wanted to become a dictator, he committed acts of treason according to the law and was removed. Most Hondurans I have met there just want to live in peace and try to make a living for themselves and their families. With all of the sanctions, it is the poor who suffer the most!
Posted by: S. Jones | August 16, 2009 at 01:44 PM
I am a Honduran and all of my family voted for Zelaya. We as are the majority of Hondurans are very sorry with that decision. He is very close friends with Chavez and Castro along as an organization called ALBA. The members of ALBA are followers of Chavez who was is the leader. Have you heard Chavez speeches? He hates all Americans democrats and republicans. These are the sentiments of Zelaya too! Have you seen the people who are his followers protesting in Honduras? They are destroying property and are very violent. Many of these are not even Hondurans but Venezuelans. These followers are true representatives of what Zelaya and Chavez want for Honduras. They do not care about the poeple! Is is so hard to understand that we do not want a mad corrupt communist dictator! We do not want to become another Cuba or Venezuela and it is obvious to us that that is Zelaya's agenda.
Posted by: Honduras | August 16, 2009 at 07:46 AM
I am a U.S. citizen, who has been living in Honduras for the past 15 years. I have watched Zelaya´s antics throughout the 3 1/2 years of his presidency. It is too dangerous to allow Zelaya´s to return to Honduras as president, because he is psychologically unbalanced. This is a man who is capable of absolutely anything, provided that it furthers what he perceives to be, in his own best interests. He lies as easily as he breathes. He would never respect the agreement proposed by Arias, in spite of the fact that he might agree to it and give all assurances.
The majority of the Honduran people are not ideologues, they do not understand the constitutional issues surrounding Zelaya´s ouster. The main concerns here are having a job, putting food on the table and living in peace.
Hondurans do not like the idea of Chavez meddling in Honduran internal affairs. No Honduran ever voted for Chavez!
The majority of Hondurans, whether they are Liberales or Nacionalistas, just want the November elections to come about and put this issue to rest once and for all.
Posted by: Jesse | August 15, 2009 at 09:36 PM
I administered a refugee camp in Honduras in the 80's, and have some personal knowlege about country. The non spin reason for the coup was Zelaya's raising the minimum wage from six to nine dollars per day. It had nothing to do with Chavez or the constitution. The raising of the minimum wage was like a tax on the rich. The wealthy Honduras also benefited from subsidized Venezuelan oil. The game is over. The oligarchy is divided over the coup. The daily, El Tiempo, has just editorialized the the coup is a failure. Democracy is powerful, and it includes a raise in the minimum wage.
Posted by: Hernan | August 15, 2009 at 07:19 PM
Why does the LA times, like the NY times, feel obligated to mention Hugo Chavez in almost every article about Honduras? This gives the impression that Zelaya is somehow a puppet which he of course is not.
Posted by: galenval | August 15, 2009 at 03:21 PM
After Zelaya, how many consecutive elections must then be held in Honduras before a new Government is legitimate?
Posted by: Per Kurowski | August 14, 2009 at 10:01 PM
As a Honduran, I have to say that 6 out of 10 people are completely brainwashed by the large media fence imposed by the fascist government. Most of the people that has posted here, use the same rethorics fascists media wants them to spill, which is sad.
the whole argument of "This is Honduras and only we can decide who we choose" is completely weak and excuse my word, but is stupid.
Although is completely true, they somehow exclude the lack of legality of a Coup de E'tat. Kidnaping the president of a nation and throwing him in exile is as legal as shooting someone in the head, no matter how many times you want to bend the law and make it look "legal"
There at least 10 unanswered questions by the fascist government when is about this coup, some of them are:
• If Zelaya was charged with something, why was he not on trial?
• And how was he deemed guilty right after he was exiled?
• If Zelaya had an arrest warrant, why wasnt he arrested??? instead of thowing him into exile?
• If Zelaya was "guilty" why didnt The Police arrest him? instead the military did so, which is completely illegal.
• Was there warrants to break in the president's House?
• Zelaya was stripped out of presidency with a fake letter. Everyone knows is a fake letter
• Where in the constitution says you can exile a president?
• Where in the constitution says you can exile a honduran?
• Where in the constitution says you can impede the return of a honduran citizen?
• And the last one: If Zelaya has arrent warrants... WHY IS HE NOT ALLOWED TO COME BACK TO HES COUNTRY?
There are like 20 more questions, to which they have no clear answers. They throw a bunch of chitchat that had no weight at all in the country.
Whether Zelaya was the devil, a communist, a Chavez Pet, a ignorant, etc etc, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the simple fact that the constitutional warranties were broken once he was kidnapped by military.
If Zelaya was to be impeached, it shoulve been legally, inside the country.
That didnt happen, gentlemen.
Instead we have a fascist government, killing, kidnapping, hurting, raping, murdering, beating people on a daily basis, with no media coverage, with noone to seem to care.
People die daily here, because some people decided to rid Zelaya... and Obama, 46 days later, is still choosing which side to take.
Cheers, you can email me
arrozcatracho@gmail.com
Check the resistance videos at
www.youtube.com/arrozcatracho
Posted by: Arroz | August 14, 2009 at 07:18 PM
As a person who was born in Cuba I can attest to the fact that the dictator Hugo Chavez and his puppets (Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, Daniel Ortega)are following the same formula in their respective countries as Fidel Castro implemented in Cuba, which is:
1. Suppression of the media
2. Formation of citizen block committees for the defense of the revolution.
3. Nationalize private property.
4. Implementation of indoctrination in the schools
5. Creation of a police state.
Why the L.A. Times is advocating the return of Zelaya to Honduras reflects an astounding naivete on the part of the L.A. Times as to the nature of the person that was removed.
I would suggest that the Times do it's homework and gather the information that is readily available, before it suggest to the people of Honduras that they emrace the return of Zelaya, a man who wanted to hand his country over to the tender mercies of Hugo Cavez and Fidel Castro.
Posted by: John Torres | August 14, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Im a Hondura, living in the capital city of the country, I think its obvious that the situation the we live in does not even come close to what a real democracy means. It's a Coup d'etat, and we need the US, we need pressure, real pressure, actions. The posibility of negotioation depends on you...
Posted by: Andrea Nuila | August 13, 2009 at 09:37 PM
There was no coup in Honduras despite Hugo Chavez' lying claim to the contrary. Zelaya violated the Honduran constitution and was removed from office following the terms of that constitution by the Supreme Court and elected government of that country. The only controversial issue in these events is whether the army, acting at the behest of the Court, should have jailed Zelaya rather than sending him into exile. The blinkered bureaucrats in our State Department unthinkingly bought into the lie that a coup had occurred, though in recent days both State and the White House have begun to recognize their error. You do your readers no service by continuing to describe the Honduran events as a coup when such is clearly not the case.
Posted by: Bob C | August 13, 2009 at 04:31 PM
it the same old imperialist with a new and improved deception mask called obama.
Posted by: joe | August 13, 2009 at 07:26 AM
Hondurans has the right to decide by ourselves, the 1rst world sensibility doesn't understand what is happening here. The pro zelaya protester are not the best nor the mayority of honduras. They are the same people that have been calling for strikes for years delaying progress on education and development, they don't want to learn that the only way to prosperity is learning and working hard not goverment help. Every day that you back them so unconditionally they become more terrorist. If zelaya loved Honduras he have hadn't put us against each other so badly.
Posted by: Nelson C. Viana | August 13, 2009 at 07:17 AM
Zelaya is a socialist/communist/dictator. Anytime the current President fails to abide by the Constitution he has sworn to uphold, he should be removed from office.
Turn the tables; what woulld you want Congress and the Supreme Court do, should our President do as Zalaya did?
There are three branches of government, and two branches decided to respect their pledge to the Constitution, and used the military to enforce their decree.
No one from the military took over the role of President. A coup is only a coup when the military installs itself into the role of leader. The military pledged to support the Constitution, not the reigning President.
Adolph Hitler had each person in the military swear allegience to him, and not the state of Germany. He was a member of a militaristic party of "brown shirts", and used the democratic process to reach power. He didn't effect a coup either, but once elected he absorbed as much power as he could through decrees from the Constitutional government then in power.
People like Hitler, Zalaya and Chevez have used the democratic system to obtain power, then never used it again.
The present government will have an election in November 2009. This act alone shows that Zalaya was the problem, and no one has stolen power.
I was born in the US but have studied world history over 55 years, and have seen time after time what happens when one person is allowed to do as HE wishes without consideration for the wishes of their judicial and elected assembles.
Therefore, I believe the US should do all in it's power to provide assistance to the Honduruan government.
Posted by: Edward Hogue | August 13, 2009 at 06:04 AM
I read an op ed piece in the Times a while back by M. Estrada, a highly distinguished lawyer of Honduran background, that cogently set forth why, under the Honduran constitution and the actions by various of the country's authorities, had lawfully removed Zelaya from office. I have never seen anyone argue that this was incorrect, but nonetheless his physical removal is simply referred to as a "coup" which assumes total unlawfulness. Until someone seriously argues the incorrectness of those actions under Honduran law, we should leave them alone.
--Eric Olson
Sierra Madre
Posted by: eric olson | August 12, 2009 at 09:24 PM
The Facts
http://www.laverdadenhonduras.com/index.php/videos/detail/ucd_-_democracy_is_alive_and_strong_in_honduras/
Posted by: The Facts | August 12, 2009 at 08:18 PM