The Mormon missionaries and the lesbians
The Yes on 8 campaign is doing its best to spread its outrage -- outrage!! -- over the latest ad against Proposition 8, which would amend the state constitution to take away the right of gay and lesbian couples to wed.
The ad, which debuted on YouTube and is going out on television today, is certainly the most attention-getting TV spot to criticize the proposition. Most of the ads against Proposition 8 have been extraordinarily tame, unlike the fear-mongering rumors spread by the Yes side.
Not any more. The new ad -- a skit in which two actors playing Mormon missionaries visit the home of a married lesbian couple -- is clearly intended to signal viewers that the Mormon church has been a major player in the Yes campaign. Its message is that the religious right is claiming the power to strip others of their rights, starting with marriage and heading into any other arenas the movement finds immoral.
Having viewed the ad, I can't see what the big deal is. Skits like this are common fodder for campaign ads. Were opponents of Prop. 8 supposed to never touch the religious aspect of this? Is it supposed to be unfair to play the Mormon card, considering the role Mormonism has played on the Yes side (e.g., pressing its members to donate and work for the campaign)? Surely the Mormon church and its members never expected to leap into a campaign with this much vocal and financial might, funding it in large part and pushing for it relentlessly, without expecting that they would be viewed as a force that is trying to roll back the clock on gay rights in California. And considering that the Yes on 8 campaign has tried to depict gays and lesbians as attempting to take over elementary schools and force themselves on religious weddings, it's not in a great position to claim bigotry and intolerance, let alone misleading advertising, coming from the other side.
The "missionaries" show up at the front door .... but watch and judge for yourself.
With this logic, you sound like you would have been a fan of the Jim Crow Laws...two different drinking fountains...both spilling the same water...it's practically the same...you would "tolerate" a person of color to sip from a fountain but not your fountain. Why? If this was the 1950's would you also "tolerate" inter racial marriages? Your arguement sounds very familiar to arguements against inter-racial marriages. You will tolerate but not accept? Why?
As history has taught us, Laws can be wrong...
"seperate but equal" that is something that will not be tolerated or accepted.
Posted by: KJAEGER | November 07, 2008 at 04:03 PM
wendallyn :
I don't know where you got your information from.. but when you're married you have to go through all the same hoops to change your name as anyone else --domestic partnership or simply looking for a new moniker.
Californian spousal rights ARE given equally to those who are married or domestic partners -- but you still have to fill out a mountain of forms and provide proof (THE SAME FOR MARRIED COUPLES AS DOMESTIC PARTNERS)
House titles married couples and domestic partners have to sign a million forms to have titles shared, transferred or changed. And YES it is the same for the inheritance laws. If you were informed differently by an attorney, perhaps its time you find a more experienced, knowlegable attorney.
When I got married I had to fill out form after form after form to get various benefits, name changes, etc. It is no different with gay couples, the forms are there to protect against people who would abuse the system... not to provent couples from taking advantage of them.
Marriage is and will always be a sacred institution between one man and one woman.. and really, I don't understand why you're so offended by that. Same-sex couples are in every fundamentally different from heterosexual coulpes.. why is it you want to be in a group of heterosexuals anyway? Why would you want to be part of something you already rejected? Why is it you want to be added to a group you fundamentally disagree with? (If a man wants to be with another man(or woman with another woman).. why would they want to be incorporated into a group so unlike their own? I'm LDS, but you don't see me fighting to be incorporated with the Catholics.. I'm a Republican, but you don't see me fighting to get into the Democratic Convention.. If I am the alumni of one school, I wouldn't try to fight to be on the alumni of a school I never attended.. If I dress up for the blue team, I don't try to sit in the midst of the red team's supporters.. why are you so discontented with the term "domestic partnership"?? Truly...... it makes no sense.. homosexual unions are completely unlike heterosexual unions.. so why try to identify with them? We treat you no differently.. we view you no differently.. This is "tolerance".. it seems like what you're aiming for is "acceptance".. trying to force people who disagree with you to agree with you.
That's why I voted YES on Prop 8
Posted by: wy2qt4u1980 | November 07, 2008 at 02:54 PM
Give me a break. You have won and you're still complaining about this!? Let gay and their kids, families, friends etc. mourn for their marriage right granted and stripped away in the same year!
It's quite pathetic that some of you Yessirs lack compassion for the minority still bleeding.
Gay people consist only 5% of the entire population, but since Americans are so obsessed with Direct Democracy (Not a Republic!), I see no hope for gays, lesbians (and their children) to find the dignity of personhood (for their parents) and the special pride conferring on by marriage which still plays a major role in terms of judging a person's character in this country.
I personally think marriage should be abolished by all states. People who want to get married can choose to do it at whatever temple, church, synagogue, mosque they want. Let the government recognize Civil Union and cohabitation. But this hope is even further away from the mainstream. Until then, I support marriage for any two persons over 16 years old who are not related.
=fin=
Posted by: alexi | November 07, 2008 at 10:07 AM
This utube video is quite tame compared to what has been happening in real life around this campaign. People with No on 8 signs having their homes vandalized and property destroyed. One mormon family in the Bay Area physically attacked some people holding up No on 8 signs, and the mormons went to jail! Physical violence, blackmail threat letters to organizations who donated to No on 8, threats by the mormon church to their own church members to blackmail them into donating to Yes on 8. The mormon church leaders, and most of their followers have acted hatefully and violently to anyone who supports the rights of all people to be able to marry. This is not only corrupt politics, but it is blatant hatred and discrimination. In this day and age, the mormon church is digging its own antebellum-era grave.
Posted by: GMG | November 07, 2008 at 09:14 AM
I just don't get it. It's a democratic process- no matter who paid money or went out on street corners (their constitutional right!) The MAJORITY of people in California said they don't want gay marriage to be legal or recognized!! It's a simple as that. No Mormons held guns to the heads of voters. People saw the ads that both sides put up- and they made their choice. It's democracy. If you don't like it, try again next time. Otherwise GET OVER IT!
By the way...
"Between Oct. 1 and Oct. 18, the closing date for the latest state financial report, opponents of the same-sex marriage ban raised more than $12 million, compared with $2.5 million for Prop. 8 backers. Both sides had about $7 million in the bank for the final push to the Nov. 4 election, which is plenty of money for strong TV ad campaigns." - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/24/BAV413NQG6.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1 (San Fransisco Chronicle)
So quit hating on us because we gave our money and time to something we believe passionately in! It's your own fault you didn't get out there are do more, because you certainly had the chance. It comes down to the voice of the majority. That's what you get when you live in America.
Posted by: Robyn | November 07, 2008 at 08:55 AM
I think it's a very clever diversion to turn this into a "hate gays" discussion. I don't hate anyone. I do define marriage as the uniting of a man and a woman. It has nothing to do with anything else. My friends that live together, gay or straight, know that I don't believe it's the right thing to do. I still love them. Let's keep the discussion on track. It's about the definition of marriage not gay bashing.
Posted by: Binky Barnes | November 07, 2008 at 08:54 AM
5,424,916 people who voted Yes on Prop. 8 were not all Mormons. As it has been observed by others, it's safe and easy for the opponents to pick on a predomintantly white religion whose temple is on Santa Monica Blvd. and cry "Civil rights" but they don't have the courage to go to the Afircan-American communities who voted overwhelming for Prop. 8. If it hadn't passed and the proponents contested it, they would be labeled as bigots. Yet, it did pass and the opponents are justified for their protests. If opponents protested at a Jewish temple, it would be reported as anti-semitic but for some reason the LA Times seems to ignore protecting freedom of religion when it comes to the Mormons by failing to balance the reporting on behalf of the proponents of Prop. 8.
Posted by: smc | November 07, 2008 at 08:28 AM
The truth is that the morman church HAS been forcing their members to donate. My stepfather is a non-practicing mormon and he recieved a call where they told him that if he did not donate he would be kicked out of the church. You can support discrimination and then say you are not a bigot. Simply disapproving is not bigotry but standing up and saying "They don't deserve equal rights" is. You can disapprove of homosexuality and still vote no.
Posted by: Tenshi | November 07, 2008 at 08:09 AM
that was pathetic...
I'm afraid the word "tolerance" is not percieved as the double-edged sword it is...it cuts both ways. you can't clamor for tolerance and than hate on others who disagree with you. What a joke...
Posted by: noignorance | November 07, 2008 at 01:51 AM
What happened to all of the tolerance talk I have been hearing? The sword of tolerance cuts both ways. Tolerance doesn't apply only to others, and tolerance is certainly not attacking others who hold dissenting views. I don't remember any Yes on Prop 8 adds that attacked gays or lesbians or their respective organizations and support groups. Who are the real haters? And going to the courts right after the initiative was passed is an insult to democracy and the democratic process. Those who were against prop 8 are now attempting to go in by the back door in order to place their own agenda over what society voted for.
Posted by: noignorance | November 07, 2008 at 01:22 AM
It is soooo amazing to me to see how the world is changing day by day.
We ALL have our free agency to do what we want in this life. It is very sad to see how NO on 8 supporters only go looking for my church to pick on. I have many family members who were raised in the LDS faith and are gay. They chose to live the life that they wanted and we still are able to be a family regardless of what they choose to do.We love them as part of our family and their partners.
But I, as a UNITED STATES CITIZEN,regardless of my faith, chose to vote YES on 8. It is my right as well as others to choose who and what they believe in.
No one is taking anything from you or any of your family members who are gay. In whatever piece of religious reading material (any religion), it clearly states that marriage is only done by a MAN and a WOMAN!
"Weather you like it or NOT!"- S.F. Mayor
Posted by: california | November 07, 2008 at 01:06 AM
Whay Hypocrits!! None of you "No on 8" folks were complaining that Obama lied about his promise for public funding and then went out and raised 3x as much money as McCain which certainly played a role in the result..Listen up..people are tired of militant gays walking down the streets parading their lifestyle choice in the face of others..They decided to make a stand..and they prevailed..it isn't about taking a "right" away..its about defining marriage..go ahead, enjoy gay sex, partner up if you wish I DON"T CARE>>REALLY..but cease with this talk of being deprived..geez you don't, obviously, deprive yourselves of anything you desire..quit the crying already..somethings are worth fighting for, and those who wish to make a stand for marriage DID..
Posted by: dave | November 06, 2008 at 09:32 PM
Why is it that gays are rioting in the streets of LA over their loss...don't see Republicans doing the same in DC?
Posted by: dave | November 06, 2008 at 09:26 PM
Here is the sad reality! What is going with the no on 8 supporters is setting the gay movement back far more then anyone realizes. The truth of the matter is we live in a democracy that gives us a right to vote and it didn't win. Most of the people that aren't gay that voted no on 8 are seriously re-thinking their vote in light of all that has happened since it was shot down. The gay community is showing no "tolerance" at all and it is really showing this movement in a deserved bad light. As a matter of fact if you were to have a recall and vote again the measure would lose by far more then 4% due directly to the lack of "tolerance" , juvenile vitriol and exhibition of hate expressed since the election. You are hurting the cause and certainly hypocritically showing a lack of loving nature. Please do it the right way.
Posted by: Steve | November 06, 2008 at 08:03 PM
Lemme get this right... its not OK for INDIVIDUALS of different religions to INDIVIDUALLY donate large sums of money to a movement they feel strongly about but it is OK for big businesses and unions like APPLE, the CA Teacher's Assoc, PG&E (how about a rate reduction instead), Levi Strauss... and the list goes on and on to make the same contributions - disregarding how their shareholders or constituents may feel. The PEOPLE of CALIFORNIA have spoken AGAIN and its not just religious folks.
Posted by: outside looking in | November 06, 2008 at 07:32 PM
In all this talk of love and hate and rights, there is no mention of wisdom, judgement and righteousness. The Mormons are called Mormons, because they believe the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon reveals that this land belongs to its former inhabitants, promised to them as an eternal inheritance, by the hand of the God of Israel.
But it was taken from them, and given to strangers, because of their transgression, after they had been visited and taught by Christ himself. Yet the promise to their fathers was that they would be restored to the knowledge of Christ, which was had anciently by their fathers, and they would be restored to their land, when the strangers, brought to this land by the hand of God, turned from him in turn.
The Mormons believe this from the book: "And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity."
Fighting against the acceptance of perversion is not an act of hate. It is an act of love, just as it was in the days of Noah. If we don't turn away from the iniquity in which we are quickly ripening, we will be swept off the face of the land, just as surely as former nations were drowned in the great flood and cities of this land were shaken to pieces, burned in consuming fire and sunk into the depths of the sea, because of iniquity.
If Mormons didn't love the people, they wouldn't care.
Posted by: Doug | November 06, 2008 at 07:25 PM
I'm sad that Vote No supporters would take their strong beliefs and turn them into a hypocritical mockery. As if the Mormons are the only ones who gave money to the cause they thought to be right. It's all the Mormon's fault. Never mind the abuse and persecution the Mormon's have to live with day after day, never mind that the california mormons only make up 2% of the vote, never mind that they have a right, JUST like the gay community to give money to their cause. This commercial s pathetic and makes the vote no cause look like a laughing stock. This goes against everything they are fighting for. They have singled out one small group and have subjected them to ridicule. I thought this was what they were supposed to be fighting against. They don't know how many votes they changed for the worse because of this.
Posted by: b.bb | November 06, 2008 at 04:21 PM
The Mormons and the rest of the religious bigots behind Prop 8 will now reap the benefits of the hatred they've sown.
We're not just mad; we're going to get even.
Posted by: Mike Tidmus | November 06, 2008 at 08:32 AM
I don't mind having gays over for dinner, but I don't want marriage to be redefined. Simple.
Posted by: Steve | November 06, 2008 at 07:48 AM
This is the first time I've seen this commercial (never saw it on TV), and it's GREAT!!!
The Mormon church poured soooooo much money into the Yes on 8 campaign and now their church members are upset that No on 8 has made a video depicting the TRUTH?
America was founded on religious freedom, and now you're using YOUR religion to take away MY freedom? I DON'T THINK SO!!!
WE WILL PREVAIL!!!
NO ON 8!!!
YES WE CAN!!!
Posted by: Tana | November 06, 2008 at 05:32 AM
Amused - I've come to that exact conclusion after reading that 70% of blacks voted Yes. 75% of black WOMEN voted Yes. Wow. The next black woman I EVER hear complain about discrimination is going to get an earful from me about it.
The mormons were really the ones who financed this fight, however. And to think they're now calling for "civility" between the two sides. That's a little like the Klan calling for "civility" after successfully pushing through a law legalizing lynching.
This election taught me one thing that I probably should have learned in the 2000 and 2004 elections - give up on tolerance. Bigotry truly is THE American "family value."
I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes, but this finally got that through my head. Hopefully I can learn to use it as effectively to manipulate people to MY will as the mormans and the catholics have done.
Catholics. Ha. There's another "maligned" group. They moved pedophile priests from parish to parish, yet kept them on - and FIRED the priest in Fresno who came out as gay and spoke against proposition 8. Shows where their true "Christian priorities" are.
Posted by: Jimmy | November 06, 2008 at 02:35 AM
"Having viewed the ad, I can't see what the big deal is."
What if a Yes on 8 ad depicted four flamboyantly homosexual judges -- wearing feather boas and rainbow robes -- cackling about forcing gay marriage on Californians?
Would that be a big deal? Sort of, right? Can you honestly say you'd react with the same sort of glibness? Granted, Gavin Newsom served as a boogeyman in the "Yes on 8" ads...but there's a world of difference between using an actual soundbite and dramatizing a metaphor.
Also. LDS missionaries are nineteen-year-old men and women who volunteer to leave their families for two years to share the gospel and give humanitarian service, paying their own way. They're completely apolitical messengers. I get that they're being used as symbols of an organization, but it's an unfair choice.
Sort of like suggesting that because Pacific Gas & Electric was a major contributor to the "No on 8" campaign, a fleet of Meter Readers will now be storming elementary schools across the state to demonstrate sodomy.
Posted by: Pasadena | November 06, 2008 at 01:10 AM
Jim, isn't the term, "gay family" an oxymoron? I mean, if you are gay, then obviously you can't have a family because you can't have kids.
Posted by: Clint | November 05, 2008 at 09:26 PM
Marriage has been defined by God. To redefine the definition of marriage is to change what God himself has set forth. This isn't just a mormon belief, it is basic Christianity.
Posted by: Stephanie | November 05, 2008 at 08:35 PM
I thought the ad was fine....truth hurts. I saw nothing bigoted in the add only the truth about why religion should not be involved in civil rights issues. All the arguements for prop 8 were religious based. Marraige is a civil right...Its not religious and has nothing to do with education. Right now I am disgusted by the homophobes and right wing bible thumpers that are taking away fundemental rights!
Posted by: Debbie | November 05, 2008 at 07:53 PM