The Mormon missionaries and the lesbians
The Yes on 8 campaign is doing its best to spread its outrage -- outrage!! -- over the latest ad against Proposition 8, which would amend the state constitution to take away the right of gay and lesbian couples to wed.
The ad, which debuted on YouTube and is going out on television today, is certainly the most attention-getting TV spot to criticize the proposition. Most of the ads against Proposition 8 have been extraordinarily tame, unlike the fear-mongering rumors spread by the Yes side.
Not any more. The new ad -- a skit in which two actors playing Mormon missionaries visit the home of a married lesbian couple -- is clearly intended to signal viewers that the Mormon church has been a major player in the Yes campaign. Its message is that the religious right is claiming the power to strip others of their rights, starting with marriage and heading into any other arenas the movement finds immoral.
Having viewed the ad, I can't see what the big deal is. Skits like this are common fodder for campaign ads. Were opponents of Prop. 8 supposed to never touch the religious aspect of this? Is it supposed to be unfair to play the Mormon card, considering the role Mormonism has played on the Yes side (e.g., pressing its members to donate and work for the campaign)? Surely the Mormon church and its members never expected to leap into a campaign with this much vocal and financial might, funding it in large part and pushing for it relentlessly, without expecting that they would be viewed as a force that is trying to roll back the clock on gay rights in California. And considering that the Yes on 8 campaign has tried to depict gays and lesbians as attempting to take over elementary schools and force themselves on religious weddings, it's not in a great position to claim bigotry and intolerance, let alone misleading advertising, coming from the other side.
The "missionaries" show up at the front door .... but watch and judge for yourself.
Wow, the hatred and name calling coming from the Gay community is unbelievable. What happened to the concept of tolerance and love. It looks like tolerance and love only applies one way.
Gays and Gay supporters only want others to tolerate, accept and love them but they seem to have utter disrespect for anyone that doesn't see things exactly as they do. My goodness how far society has come.
Prop 8 is about defining the term Marriage as between a Man and a Woman. If Prop 8 passes, Gays can still form Unions which have ALL the same rights as mandated by state Law.
If you don't like the term Civil Union, then please put your creative energy into coming up with a better term that defines your relationship.
Posted by: John S. | November 04, 2008 at 12:33 PM
I found this great timeline on same-sex marriage issues that covers 1970 to the present. It offers great insight in to the ongoing battle without presenting a biased opinion, just straight facts.
http://borngay.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=25
Posted by: sakuranoko | November 04, 2008 at 12:59 PM
I'm a No on 8 supporter and this commercial makes us look like a bunch of fools. Why the hell did they release this video? We are supposed to be teaching Tolerance not hate. Vote No on 8 but not because of this hypocritical commercial.
Posted by: jeffrey Root | November 04, 2008 at 01:17 PM
I'm a Mormon and I say "sweet payback" for the blackmail letter sent to the no on prop 8 business contributors. This is hardball politics. What did you expect?
Posted by: BCA | November 04, 2008 at 01:17 PM
I had been undecided, and leaning toward voting no on 8 when I go to vote later today, but after seeing such blatant bigotry in this ad, I will be voting yes. Thanks for making this choice easier for me.
Posted by: Big Wave Dave | November 04, 2008 at 01:20 PM
marriage is no longer a religious institution owned by the churches. it is civil. when the mormons and catholics start taking on drive through weddings and elvis impersonators as officiants and weddings in made up TV languages as being legitimate, then I will give them some say in how marriage is being conducted. but that ain't gonna happen. religious marriage is a debased institution and has primarily a legal function any more.
i don't see why someone should have to go through 10 steps to get the same legal rights they get with one "i do" and a filled out wedding license.
and churches will not be forced to marry gays, and men will not be forced to marry men, nor any of the other crud that is being slung around. i don't blame the gays for getting a little snippy - they have been slimed repeatedly by this propositions backers
Posted by: Jose | November 04, 2008 at 01:27 PM
“Hate” is an emotion that can drive a person to do things that hurt another. Opponents of prop 8 are not hurting Mormons. They are not trying to stop Mormons from marrying, having their temples, or living their private lives as they wish. They are not attempting to have the government treat them as second-class citizens.
But the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon) *is* exhibiting hate because their efforts, if successful, will have long-lasting and detrimental effects on the lives of others. They *are* trying to force their religious POV on others. They *are* intruding into the private lives of others. Worse, they are doing this under legal protection that allows them to spread their hate with tax-exempt status.
These are the same tricks I watched the LDS Church play when they up-ended the Equal Rights Amendment. The LDS Church should be ashamed, and those who support the church need to re-evaluate their membership.
Duwayne Anderson
Author of “Farewell to Eden: Coming to terms with Mormonism and science”
Posted by: Duwayne Anderson | November 04, 2008 at 01:34 PM
Wow- John S., you really are misinformed. Domestic Partnerships in California do NOT have ALL the same rights as marriages. There are hundreds of laws that treat Domestic Partners differently than married couples. I could not change my name legally as a Domestic Partner like you can when you get married. I could not demand spousal rights when signing up for various services provided in the state of California, the title on my house was treated differently, and inheritance laws are not treated the same.
I was fortunate enough on June 21st of this year to marry my partner of 12 years and be legally granted several new rights. Prop 8 would truly deprive us of the rights that all other married couples take for granted. We tried "separate but equal" in the 50's and found that it really wasn't equal at all.
Posted by: wendallyn | November 04, 2008 at 01:34 PM
Big Wave Dave,
I'm so disappointed to hear that you are voting Yes on 8! I am a Christian woman, married to another Christian woman, and we have adopted 2 children who otherwise would be stuck in the foster care system. We listen to your radio station all the time, and our girls love listening to your afternoon program.
Please don't take away our rights to be recognized as a true family. Our girls ask us all the time why "straight" people care so much if we are married and it is hard fo find an answer for them. Even our children know that our being married does not affect them, except to give them the chance to feel proud of their family.
Posted by: wendallyn | November 04, 2008 at 01:39 PM
Just face it. Those of you that are supporting this ban are doing it out of hate. You are just using your religion as a reason to hate. Deep down if your religion preached tolerance you wouldn't have a reason to hate and couldn't vote for it.
Something for the so-called "Christian" to think about.
Posted by: JBBW | November 04, 2008 at 01:44 PM
The Yes on 8 ads concerned with teaching young children that any two people can be married before the children have figured out their sexual identiy are based on what actually happened in Mass.
Yes on 8 is only trying to restore the law and protect marriage.
The Mormon Church did not force any member to do anything. People responded to the concernfor familits
Of course it doesnt matter what I say.... you all non-members know better.
PS The Catholics, and many other churches support yes on proposition 8. But it is probably true that the Mormons are more organized.
Posted by: goliathon8 | November 04, 2008 at 01:50 PM
The ad is ridiculous. Mormons aren't using the force of law to stop anyone from living together or sharing a life together or having ceremonies or exchanging rings.
State-licensed marriage is a public matter. The public gets to set some of the terms.
It would make more sense to show gay activists and a judge pushing a "Yes on 22" voter out of her voting booth. Voting is a long-established right, unlike getting a state-issued license (and that goes for ANY marriages).
Posted by: Ken | November 04, 2008 at 02:01 PM
I thought we engaged in the Campaign against Hate? I can't believe this! I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I think it's wrong to attack people not only for their sexual preferences, but also for their religion. This is Hate Crime! I just hope that none of those poor boys out serving their Church will be attacked on account of this.
Let's get a grip. I know that we're all engaged in a war for rights here, but I think that we need to draw the line somewhere.
I am ashamed of this video.
Posted by: John Sebastian | November 04, 2008 at 02:04 PM
Thanks for sharing this. I'm now voting yes on 8.
Posted by: Steve Young | November 04, 2008 at 02:09 PM
I wonder how a commercial showing two gay pedophiles marrying in order to adopt a child would would go over with the gay community. After all, according to the blogger, it is "no big deal".
About the same level of accuracy. Mormons are a small group, easily hurt. I note the Jews and Mulsims and Catholics are left relatively untouched by the opposition. They are easy to pick on. Its nice to know the pro gay community isn't any different from the people they attack. Just slightly less honest.
Posted by: Jim | November 04, 2008 at 02:10 PM
"I had been undecided, and leaning toward voting no on 8 when I go to vote later today, but after seeing such blatant bigotry in this ad, I will be voting yes. Thanks for making this choice easier for me."
Yes, we all believe you. You're not just a Yes on 8 tool whose making this up to make it seem like you were morally offended. I'm sure you really were undecided.
Posted by: Buffalo | November 04, 2008 at 02:20 PM
I'm definitely of the "No on 8" crowd, and while I think it IS right that the Mormans should be made to own up to the damage they're doing to California families, I don't think that inciting further bigotry is a good way to FIGHT bigotry. In a way, right now, I feel that if Prop 8 DOES pass, it will be due in part to this ad. It won't sit well with people who were on the fence. I suppose this is politics though. I can't honestly say that I see anything DISHONEST in what the ad is saying though - the Morman church REALLY IS going out of its way to destroy marriages, something no one can accuse anyone on the No on 8 side of doing. If they get their wish, families that have been legally bound together will be legally torn apart. I see the Courage Campaign as telling the truth, but I also see that they might well help Prop 8 to pass, and that would be terribly sad.
Posted by: Jimmy | November 04, 2008 at 02:20 PM
It's amazing how people associate love with "approval" and hatred with "disapproval". Simply because I don't agree with what you do doesn't mean I hate you. The fact that you see it that way just shows who the real close-minded person is.
I don't agree with gay marriage, plain and simply. However, I have several gay friends and love them dearly. I don't approve of what they do, but what they do behind closed doors is their business. But once it come out from behind closed door, it's mine, and I don't approve. I consider sexual relations to be special and feel they should be treated as such.
If you call me a hater, it's because you don't agree with how I feel. What then makes you any less hateful than me? Again, love does not equal acceptance or approval. Otherwise, pretty much no one would love anyone but themselves, and often times not even that.
I support the need to provide legal rights, such as power of attorney, to gay couples. Matter of fact, I voted against our states amendment to ban gay marriage because it went too far. However, the attitude of people like this, and those behind this commercial, make me strongly remorse that decision.
Posted by: Matthew Areno | November 04, 2008 at 02:32 PM
I've been whipsawed by the slick fear-mongering pro-8 ad campaign that have saturated California households over these last weeks. The ads are factually erroneous and ethically disgusting, and skew the issue to make it seem as though the taking away of personal freedoms is a 'do the right thing' call to action. I can only hope that voters are wise enough to resist the fear-mongering and distortion. The 'missionaries' ad is admittedly heavy-handed, but accurate in showing Prop 8 for what it is: The Right to Hate.
PLEASE SAY NO TO HATE— and vote NO on 8!
Posted by: Daren Salter | November 04, 2008 at 02:33 PM
Lifelong Republican and McCain voter AGAINST Prop 8. Not all old, white, heterosexual guys are haters, nor are they all homophobes. As one of the above with 5 kids, I have already voted against this dreadful initiative. BTW, I am not Morman, but have VERY good friends who are, and they do not all support the initiative either.
Posted by: Fresno | November 04, 2008 at 02:44 PM
How can anyone on either side stomach this ad? If there is anyone in this discussion that is still undecided on prop 8 (not likely), does this not make it completely obvious on which side the hate really resides?
Please vote Yes on 8
Posted by: concernedincalifornia | November 04, 2008 at 03:08 PM
Jim -
The Jews, Muslims and Catholics were probably "left relatively untouched" because it was more obvious that they were like most groups - split, and not appearing to be a unified force against the gay people. The mormans have been showing with great force and pride that they raised (half? more? less?) a great deal of the money used to attack the gay families in the Yes on 8 campaign. That amount of dedication (and MONEY) does not show the mormans to be a "small group, easily hurt" like you suggest - but a group with lots of money, and the will to use it for no other purpose than to cause harm to families who don't meet their approval.
Posted by: Jimmy | November 04, 2008 at 03:17 PM
Bigotry? I think what's hurting this state most is basic cognitive skills. Where in the commercial did the women advocate denying the Mormons the right to practice their religion or don magic underwear?
The answer is simple - government needs to get out of the business of sanctioning marriage and merely administer domestic partnerships for everyone, with full rights for all consenting adults. This isn't a difficult concept. Christian doctrine teaches that God is in the center of a marriage between two people. Nowhere is there a mention of government. The problem isn't gay marriage - it's intrusive government in our personal lives. No On 8, baybee!!
Posted by: paddyoski | November 04, 2008 at 03:30 PM
Whatever your personal views on homosexuality or marriage, this is about the fundamental rights of tax-paying, law-abiding Californians. Civil unions do not provide equal rights -- and, even if they did, how can we forget that separate is NOT equal?
To those who support Proposition 8 because they believe homosexuality is wrong, I would respond that your individual beliefs are less important than the principles of equality. We are all entitled to our opinions; we are not entitled to discriminate against others based on these opinions, absent a compelling interest. There is no compelling interest -- wherein the benefits of discrimination would outweigh the burdens -- in preventing gays from getting married.
Posted by: La Linguetta | November 04, 2008 at 03:39 PM
No big deal, uh? Well, I would like to see what you would have to say about an ad that depicted a couple of lesbians invading the home of Mormons and tearing apart their religious books, because of their homophobic content...
Posted by: Francisco Bruno | November 04, 2008 at 03:42 PM