Mailbag: Same-sex marriage, 'til death us do part
Will the honeymoon never end? Gay marriage keeps people talking.
Responding to David Benkof's* Blowback "Marriage ban is not a 'wedge issue'," one reader wonders who needs protection:
It's hard to know where to start responding to Benkof's hate screed, disguised as it is in the cloak of reasonable argument. First, he announces that efforts to ban gay marriage are not a "wedge issue," offering as proof nothing more than that some marriage-equality advocates have said they are. Then he decides that anyone who has ever cheated on a wife or husband is unqualified to say what marriage is. The fact that someone does not have a perfect, or even a good, marriage does not invalidate his or her opinion on the subject.
Then Benkof starts in on how marriage-equality supporters are trying to "redefine" marriage. In actuality, proponents of gay marriage are simply pointing out the inherent inequity of denying basic rights because of sexual orientation. It is unconstitutional to create two separate classes of law-abiding citizens and grant to one class rights that are denied to the other.
Benkof also hits the usual pandering notes of "traditional" marriage and "marriage protection," never explaining why marriage needs protection from people who want to get married, and pleads for rationality and compromise while advocating writing discrimination into state laws.
Susan Hathaway
Our news coverage draws this response from frequent contributor Jasmyne Cannick:
Re: "For one same-sex couple, marriage was always the goal" (June 16, 2008)
I'd like to challenge the L.A. Times to for once, feature a gay or lesbian couple in a story that isn't white or one half white. You wouldn't know it from the Times' coverage of gay marriage in California, but there are Black, Latino, and Asian gays too. And no, we're not all rushing down the aisle to get married either. By the way---the story you ran on the two Black lesbians abusing their five year-old doesn't count.
Just a thought.
Jasmyne Cannick
West Adams, Los Angeles
And another reader says heterosexuals are peeved about definitions, not threats to marriage:
Every article and op-ed I read about gay marriage has the same talking points. I don’t know why proponents of gay marriage feel that we married heterosexuals feel threatened. Nothing could be further from the truth. Traditionally, men and women marry. Unions of gay persons should be called something else because it is something else. Liberal politicians just want your vote…gay, illegal alien, convicted felon, stray cats...
Mike Mancuso
* This spelling of the name Benkof was corrected after this post was published. Thanks to David Benkof for pointing out my error.


First of all, to the LA Times, my name is Benkof, with one f. Please correct your error.
Apparently Susan Hathaway does not understand what a "wedge issue" is. As explained in the LA Times by Democratic politico extraordinaire Garry South, it's a measure designed to bring out voters to support presidential candidates, usually Republicans. Some Democrats think that there's a wedge-issue link between the prominent ballot initiatives on marriage in 2004 and 2008 and the presidential elections that year. But 2004 and 2008 are the years when Massachusetts and California, respectively, implemented gay marriage. Of course those were years when people who prefer the traditional definition of marriage reacted politically. When in 1998 there were marriage lawsuits in Hawaii and Alaska, those states passed initiaves barring gay marriage. They didn't wait until the next presidential election - 2000 - to use gay marriage as a "wedge."
My point is not that adulterous public officials cannot have a position on marriage consistent with their consciences. My point is that when people like Gavin Newsom and David Paterson get preachy and pushy about how two men or two women can "marry," it is legitimate to point out that they have no idea what marriage is. I think Republicans would be dumb to let Newt Gingrich or David Vitter be our spokesmen for marriage. If the gay community were smart, it would pick someone who believes in monogamy and fidelity and has never been known to harm her own marriage as the main heterosexual spokesman for gay marriage among politicians. But if they want to keep spotlighting Antonio Villaraigosa's support for redefining marriage, I think it's great. It only helps my side.
Susan doesn't clarify if she thinks the California Marriage Protection Act is unconsitutional on the state or federal level. I hope she doesn't mean state, because that is a truly idiotic position. A constitutional amendment is by definition constitutional. If she means the federal constitution, I am willing to commit to support a federal lawsuit after the intitiative passes to force the United States Supreme Court to decide once and for all whether there is a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. Susan, will you join me in supporting such a lawsuit? Because all the major gay groups have fought same-sex couples who have sued using their own money tooth and nail, because (and they state this openly) they think if such a case goes to the Supreme Court, they will lose. The Supreme Court is the body that decides what is or is not constitutional. Susan cannot fairly claim the man-woman marriage definition is unconstitutional but oppose letting the Supreme Court make that decision. That's no different than my claiming I have a constitutional right to murder my children, but I refuse to let the courts indicate whether my absurd constitutional theory is in fact correct.
I have written extensively about exactly why marriage needs protection from the current attacks on the traditional definition on my Web site, GaysDefendMarriage.com.
Posted by: David Benkof | June 20, 2008 at 08:29 AM
heterosexual couples are peeved? I don't think so. That's a very vague statement, and there's no facts backing it up. I will say that the people who don't like same sex marriage are lacking simple excitment in their own relationships. The majority of people reading these blogs are gay people, and rightfully so, and right-wing "Christians," who have replaced outdated gay stereotypes as their religion, for "god." this is the only thing that "Christians" are interested in. They're obsessed. Its like a weird cult, and their waiting from instructions from their ignorant leaders.
Posted by: Flex | June 20, 2008 at 08:45 AM
Thanks, David. Sorry about that.
Posted by: Tim Cavanaugh | June 20, 2008 at 09:04 AM
The problem with same sex marriage is there is no consideration to children. Same sex marriage is just about selfish people who want the same "rights" as straights. If anyone should have "rights" it's the children that don't have a voice and should be able to start off life with both a mother and a father. People argue that denying same sex marriage is the same as denying interracial marriage which is not true. There is no difference between blacks and whites so there should never be a ban on interracial marriage. There is a fundamental difference between men and women. This is very important when raising children. Typically women are more nurturing and men help more in the character development. The same sex marriage advocates want people to believe that men and women are the same other then their genitalia. By not giving children their "rights" you are hurting them in order to make gays feel better about themselves. California has already voted against same sex marriage and four activist judges have overturned the will of the people. If you care about the future of our country, make sure you vote on the California state constitutional amendment to define marriage only between a man and a woman which will outlaw same sex marriage in California. This is also why we need a federal constitutional amendment to prevent same sex marriage to insure that activist judges will not overthrow the will of the people in the future. Dennis Prager can help illuminate why same sex marriage is a bad idea in this article.
Posted by: Mike | June 21, 2008 at 06:47 AM
David: You may remember me as we corresponded a few weeks ago on various issues. I just wanted to point out that what you wrote in your comment here was not correct. A constitutional amendment is only constitutional if it is adopted in accordance with the constitutions procedure for amendment. The California Constitution makes a distinction between constitutional "amendment" and constitutional "revision." An amendment clarifies something or changes small things in the constitution. A revision changes basic constitutional doctrines or structures. Since the California Supreme Court has ruled that marriage is a fundamental right that cannot be denied to gay couples and that the equal protection clause is also implicated, outlawing same-sex marriage will now contravene the equal protection clause. Furthermore, we now know that there will be thousands of same-sex marriages performed in California while it is legal between now and November since anti-gay groups were unsuccessful in getting the Supreme Court to stay its ruling. That means that if the amendment were to pass, it would throw all of those marriages into legal limbo and it would make drastic changes to a fundamental constitutional right. It will almost certainly be considered a revision as opposed to an amendment.
The California Constitution provides that the people may "amend" the constitution by initiative. It neglects to put the word "revise" in that section. Amendments or revisions, however, can be referred to the people by the legislature. That means, since this proposal is by initiative petition and it is a revision as opposed to an amendment, it is likely unconstitutional. See McFadden v. Jordan (1948) 32 Cal.2d 330, 333: “The initiative power reserved by the people by amendment to the Constitution in 1911 (art. IV, s 1) applies only to the proposing and the adopting or rejecting of ‘laws and amendments to the Constitution’ and does not purport to extend to a constitutional revision.” Also, see Raven v. Deukmejian (1990) 52 Cal.3d 336.
Posted by: John Keating | June 23, 2008 at 04:11 PM
♥THINK THAT GAY PPL HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET MARRIED IF THEY REALY WANT TO. PPL SAY THAT MARRIGE IS ABOUT CHILDREN BUT ITS REALLY NOT MARRIGE IS ABOUT LOVE AND PPL HAVE THE RIGHT TO LOVE NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE I MEAN IF UR MARRIED FOR 15 YEARS WITHOUT ANY KIDS ARE U GOING TO GET A DIVORSE OF COURSE NOT BECAUSE U LOVE EACHOTHER. I THINK U SHOULD LET PPL DO THEIR LIVES
Posted by: sexy | November 20, 2008 at 10:29 AM