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Harman flip-flops on Armenian genocide resolution

In the long, unhappy life of the congressional resolution to officially recognize and commemorate the Armenian genocide, there have been many moments (from the Armenian point of view, which I broadly share) of parliamentary treachery -- then-House speaker Dennis Hastert withdrawing the resolution at the last minute in 2000, both presidents George Bush vowing as candidates to officially recognize the genocide then dropping the pledge once in the White House, and so on.

Now we can add to that list ... hawkish South Bay Democrat Jane Harman! Even though Harman is one the bill's 226 co-sponsors, she nonetheless wrote a letter to House Foreign Relations Committee Chair Tom Lantos Wednesday urging him to withdraw it from consideration, and announcing that she will oppose the very resolution she affixed her name to. Excerpt:

My father was a refugee to the United States from Nazi Germany. I understand the consquences of ethnic and racial persecution, and am comitted to fighting and condemning acts of genocide wherever they occur. That is why I agreed to cosponsor H. Res. 106. I am convinced that a terrible crime was committed against the Armenian people. That crime should be recognized and condemned.

However, following a visit to Turkey earlier this year that included meetings with Prime Minister Erdogan, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarch and colleagues of murdered journalist Hrant Dink, I have great concern that this is the wrong time for the Congress to consider this measure.

Due to my security focus in the House, I have made 18 trips to the Middle East region over the past 14 years and am persuaded that Turkey plays a critically important role in moderating extremist forces there. Given the nature of the threat, I believe it is imperative to nurture that role -- however valid from the historical perspective, we should avoid taking steps that would embarrass or isolate the Turkish leadership.

In other words, the Turks are wrong, but they're just too important to piss off. Jane'll fight tomorrow's genocide, but would rather not talk about yesterday's. Still, the Foreign Affairs Committee has scheduled a vote for next Wednesday, and Democrats are predicting the bill will pass the House.

I wrote about the bizarre politics of saying "genocide" back in April.

 

Comments () | Archives (58)

The comments to this entry are closed.

Ben Sul

This latest example of the powerful and immoral Turkish Lobby only amplifies the notion that justice must prevail. First it was Dennis Haster, then it was Dick Gephart, and now we have Jane Harman -- apply enough pressure, offer money or other "gifts" and for the right price some politicians will sell their souls. Bribery and prostitution go hand-in-hand, and if Jane Harman thinks her constituents won't remember her folly when the re-election time will come, she's gravely mistaken.

Ben Sul
Los Angeles, CA

Artin Vetekian

I don't think it's a good political move for her, she must be getting paid top dollars by the Turkish lobby. She now joins the very small crew of deniers that are crawling like cockroaches in CA.

Chris

In my view, all the members of congress/senate and the president who are against recognizing the history of Armenian Genocide are in the same boat as the president of Iran and his views about the holocaust. How can we Americans criticize the president of Iran for his remarks when our own president is playing realpolitiks with another genocide?

John

One more amoral politician so what's new. politics is full of them. but moral people will not forget her treachery and most other republicans when it's time for their reelection.

Narek

So basically they know it was a Genocide? but they refuse to acknowledge it because of there ally? it definitely is justified? that Turkeys president makes absurd threats against the US concerning the Armenian Genocide resolution but it is not important that almost 1 million Armenians in the USA want them to recognize it backed up by many references like the person who invented the word 'genocide', and many other dedicated historians or writers like Robert Fisk. It is a fact and should be recognized a 'friend' should not stop this. Also a ally does not make threats.

Harry Istepanian

I agree with Jane Harman! it is wrong time for the Congress to consider this measure! United States waited more than 90 years to discuss the atrocities against the Armenians by American (good) friends, Turkey.

Turkey used the same tactic against France when the Genocide resolution was adopted by French Parliament last year. Guess what! The French legislators were more courageous than Americans like Harman not bowing to Turkish threat..


Nikos  Retsos

Janes Harman's twisted views on the Armenian genocide represent
the typical American foreign policy attitude, from the end of World War II, to nowadays Blackwater USA, on issues of human rights, and global crimes and mayhem. If they have been committed by our own allies [our own S.O.B's in un-diplomatic parlance] they are OK. They are just unortunate events of an era of turmoil, or of the era of Cold War when brutish U.S. allies, such as Augusto Pinochet, Alfredo Stroenner, Papa Doc Duvalier, Anastasio Somoza, Ferdinald Markos, Mobutu Sese Seko, Jorge Videla, Rios Mont, Samuel Doe, and on our subject Turkey, itself, committed crimes with impunity because it served our own purpose.

Turkey has been sensored for decades by the European Union for for torture, deaths and prosecution of its own people. It is a felony in Turkey to just utter a world that is insulting to the Turkish State, and a famous Armenian scholar who has written about the genocide has been gunned down. Plus, the harsh prosecution, torture, and imprisonment of many Kourdish activists is a matter of record at the U.N. and the European Court of Human Rights in Stramburg, France.

Turkey has failed for more than twenty years to become a member of the Europen Union -despite the full U.S. backing- because it is a repressive state. Even our new strong ally, President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, made it clear before his election that Turkey doesn't belong to the European Union.

Jane Harman is a hypocrite if she mention that her father came from
Nazi Germany, and therefore she is somebody from a highly moral ground to oppose the U.S. House of Representative vote on the Armenian genocide. Her hypocritical stance on the issue is: I know what evil is because my father came from Nazi Germay, and that is why I initially supported the Armenian genocide resolution. But, after visiting Turkey, and were told that we have national interests there, I decided that we should give Turkey a pass.
In short, she slipped back to the Cold War era, and she sees now that crimes committed by our allies are OK. Now, she is begging other legislators to look the other way as well. I wonder
why she did not oppose the prosecution of Serbs who committed
genocide in Bosnia, and now rot in jails in Netherland. Because
the Serbs have traditionally been allies of Russia.

Is that a moral high ground to stand on a pile of 1.5 million of slaughterd Armenians and say: Our Friends did it; lets look the other way? Or it is corrupt moral servitude from those who would sell their conscience and soul to any brutal regime in the world for the price of their alliance? Nikos Retsos, retired academic.

Art Vartanian

Right on !

J. T.

The Turks murder 1.5 million innocent Armenian men, women and children and have neither acknowledged it or let alone be remorseful or even offer an opology yet we here in America have to deliberatly lie and recreate history so as not to insult the perpetrators of the worse crime against humanity, genocide? The message Ms. Harman sends is that genocide is acceptable as long as there is gain. Sorry, I don't subscribe to this at all. Would she ignore the Holocaust? By not acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, you are asking for history to repeat itself.

gagik

no ecognize the armenian genocide this mines to suport the killers of nation.

John Bakalian

Jane, Jane, Jane.

Turkey was a terrorist state and committe Genocide.
You agree that Turkey committed Geocide.
What's wrong with you? Turkey has bases we can use?
Oil lines through their territory?
Stand up for what is right, Jane.
It's about time Turkey was held accountable for killing over
1.5 Million of my relatives.

Ani

Thomas Jefferson once said,

"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead"

Way to go "Honorable" Congresswoman Jane Harman.

mike levy

Money, money, money, $$$$$ it can buy anyone

Hanriette Sahin

Please look at the names of people who wrote comments!They are all Armenians...No wonder articles are so biased. If you all belive it is true, why don't ask Armenia to cooperate so that historains from both sides can look at it rather than using it as a political instrument? You don't have to answer...You want money and land from Turkey...You can only see that in your dream...That will NEVER happen. What about the crimes that your ancestors committed during the same period????Your ancestors stabbed Ottoman Empire to which they were citizens of, sided with Russia with the hope of getting a piece of land and butchered people who are not Armenian.Who is going to pay the penalty for it? I guess it is you, since you are blaming TURKEY for a war that happened during Ottoman Empire where lots of people died from both sides. I guess you are trying to put a new definition to "genocide"- genocide is when you don't do anything but somebody comes and kills you in groups. Are you claiming Armenians at that time did nothing? If so then you don't even know your history. Rtaher than trying to poison other people's minds you should go and spend some time reading your own history. I pity you for your existence seems to flourish hatred, rather than understanding , humanity...What a waste of human life....

john walker

so i guess we should not be too concerned about the president of iran's view of the holocuast... what a howardly position she is taking... Turkey is not going to do anything, this is the perfect opportunity to pay them back for turning their backs on us during the iraq invasion ...poetic justice!

Ayhan

No wonder this Bill comes out from California, it looks like some one is getting paid by the California Armenian's Community. How can you say a genocide exists after 90 years have passed by. What was stopping the world from calling it a genocide then when the Ottoman's had no power, no money, and was cornered and circled by enemies. I laugh at this claim and wonder how much you each want to get paid off of this. Or is this a plan to take land from Turkey. By the way I think there is a possible genocide going on right now commited by Armenians in Azerbaijan.

Jacob

Jane Harman...
How could you dishonor your word and all the victims of holocaust by blocking the recognition of another genocide? How could you sell your soul?
Did you know that Turkish govenment brought back the remains of Talaat pasha and gave a state funeral as a hero? That is equal to (as if) German government bringing back the remains of Dr. Mengela and giving a hero's funeral.
You encourage United States bowing it's head to a perpetrator of one of the worst crimes against humanity. What a shame...

u c coskun

can somebody remind me the result of the english courts held just after WW1 related to the genocide claims? I'm sure they had access to the whole ottoman arsiv, they tried to blow one last punch to the ottoman empire, an enemy. They arrest all the possible criminal oficers. Ohh, I remeber now, they could not make a case about the event just happened 1-5 years before. now 90 years later, we are discussing politics, not history...

Paulos

As long as Armenian refuse to know it run all of Glendale, who want old eurpoe? My brother run verizon shop, my sister do luggage botique in Galleria, my papa own next-biggest taxi cab in 134-pacific.

All turkish hope to end local business, hopes of people, family relateions. Turkish killed all armenain like George W. Bush killed all iraqi to help rotten Kurd kill off Armenian and Turnk.

LazioRoma

The French parliament passed a likely resolution last year, and now all the liberal french newspapers are reporting about the damage that the french economy has to suffer because of the ties with turkey: turks stopped buying the french TGV but bought spanish highspeed trains, they stopped buying airbus but looked for bombardier and boing planes, they banned the french investors out of the nabucco pipeline-project and other projects worth billions in their country, stopped buying french militaria but looked for italien ones etc. France is the only economy in Europe which is not growing, unlike the flourishing economies of germany or italy.
germany and italy may also recognize the massacres as genocide, but turkey did not warn them before they passed a resolution, so they were not harmed by turkey.
here you can read a german article (by AFP) about how the french foreign minister trys to "normalise" the relations between the 2 countries.:
http://www.tah.de/afp/story.html?xF=afp//deutsch/journal/pol/071005100434.7ba0n1ae.xml
of course the united states would not suffer economically by a protest of the turkish state. but when turkey sees that the US dont ally with them anymore, they will work more together with middle eastern states, for example iran, ergo the iran economy will grow faster as they will be able to work together with europe through turkey, they will be more accepted in europe. in advantege of all anti-americans around the globe, from venezuela to north corea. if iran gains too much power, the influence of america will decrease.
the same things counts for the former soviet states. states like turkmenistan, azerbycan, kazakhstan, usbekistan (which are all full of oil or gas) have much influence on russia, and all the people there are from turkic origin, they even speak the same language as the turks in turkey. russia may also gain power when turkey decides to create stronger connections to his relatives in northwest-asia.

Artin

Follow the logic if you can: Genocide was not committed: Armenians betrayed the Ottoman Empire: Armenians deserved what they got. This is the argument put forth by the Turkish Government and its apologists everywhere. Armenians were betrayed by the Ottoman Empire long before they started their rebellion. The massacres of Adana in 1895, for example, preceded the Genocide by 20 years, and resulted in 30,000+ Armenian deaths. With their relentless oppression of their Armenian subjects during their reign, the Ottomans had forfeited the Armenians' loyalty by the time their empire collapsed.

george

Why do the Turkish commenter's think the motivation behind this resolution is some sort of scheme to get their land or money. Turkeys own scholars admit that a genocide took place. Doesn't it make the Turkish people a little curious that it is a crime to speak of the Armenian Genocide in Turkey??? Why doesn't this nation recognize it will never go forward (i.e joining the EU) unless it admits to it's own historical acts. It's analogous to the U.S. having a state sponsored denial of the history of slavery in the South. It's ludicrous. Some of the grandparents of people living in Turkey today were responsible for the carrying out of these heinous acts, and therefore it makes these people extremely uncomfortable to think their own grandparents could have committed such despicable crimes against humanity. To these people I say that by denying that their forefathers murdered millions of Armenian's you are only making the burden on yourselves even heavier. You cannot stick you'r collective heads in the sand and hope these Armenian's will go away. They will not go away. They will only get stronger, because history and justice are on their side.

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Charles

As Taner Akcam points out in "A Shameful Act : The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility" the Genocide of 1915 was the culmination of a long history of Turkish abuse.
There are many Turkish arguments denying the Genocide but my favorite is the one that goes like this: the Armenians were disloyal and deserved what they got and if they diaspora does not shut up about the genocide which never happened we will finish the job.
Well EU please let them in. I'd love to see their allies and assistants in the Genocide, Germany, overrun with Turks.

J. Barry

What Harman was simply trying to point out is that US national security interests are at stake. If you don't believe her, ask the Pentagon how much our soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan rely on Turkish logistical support. Will everyone who supports the resolution take a deep breath and think of the consequences? And before you think the Turks are just bluffing and won't close down Incerlik, would you like to accept responsibility in case you are WRONG?!?

Alpay Kocmar

Armenian Genocide is one of the biggest west lies.It's easy to blame Turkey or Turkish peoples here.It's easy to say Turkish people killed 1.5MM Armenians in 1915.Here is some info. who speak about 1915 events without any informations.There was a war between Rusian and Ottoman Empire.Armenians who lives in Ottoman empire borders attack to Ottoman army.They attacked Turkish village.They killed innocent thousands people.Then Ottoman goverment decide to move these Armenians to the peacefull part of Empire.There were some painfull events these movement.
But nobody say it was a genocide.Because Nobody touch Armenian people who lives in Istanbul,Izmir or other cities except Russian borders eastern cities.Alot of Armenian people die this period but a lot of Turkish people killed by Armenians same time.

please don't accuse any nation with limited information.

new york istanbul

Is discussing the historical events responsibility of parliaments? No. Their job is about FUTURE. The proposed resolution is not about history. It is a tool to affect the future.

France's goal was to stop / slow down the accesion of Turkey to EU. Besides normalization of the relationship of Turkey and Armenia was not a good thing for France. France capitalized on Armenians' tragedy.

However, the US interests are different than those of France. Damaging the relationships between Turkey, US and Armenia would not help US as it did France. Maybe some US politicians want to use others' tragedies for their own interests, however, this is not the best option since it will hurt the US interests.


Turk 29

george, you asked:

"Why do the Turkish commenter's think the motivation behind this resolution is some sort of scheme to get their land or money"

The answer is in the maps published in Armenia.

xira

Was a bill like this passed for the American Indians? As I recall from my history books, the US government had something to do with their demise.

Jacob

Turk 29, Have you been in Armenia and what maps do you talk about? As before, when Armenians publish maps showing their traditional homeland and old kingdoms, Turks go mad that someone points that before 13Th (before Turkes arrived) century there were others living there.
Second, do not threaten us for US-Turkish relations going sour by pointing to every failed France-Turkey business deal. The fact is that after recognition in 2001 France's trade with Turkey has gone up 135%.
Lastly, Mr Barry, What Turkish logistics support are you talking about?
We know that in Iraq war Turkey refused US use of Turkish bases and opening of a second front. While US had to rely on hostile Arab support, our "Great ally, Turkey" refused any, except lip servise, which has cost us American lives.

Baris Tarim

Let's cut down the silly rhetoric. Nobody has been able to show how it is the job of Parliaments to pass "resolutions" concerning history. I fully support academic debate, but a bunch of politicians in Capitol Hill spinning things for their own interests - that's lame.

I would have expected Armenians to get angry at this - a retired high ranking Armenian official had said that France was using the pains of the Armenian people to its own political advantage (keeping Turkey out of the EU) and was not helping the situation of Armenia today when they tried to pass a similar resolution in France last year.

Non-Armenian Americans should honestly ask whose interests all the Armenian-Americans have at heart: their own monetary ones or the over-all interests of the American nation, and see that all those Armenian lobby groups are selfish groups who don't give a damn about the US:

The United States already has a horrible image all across Europe and the Middle East and the rest of the world, and American politicians stepping in so self-righteously to get involved about events that happened a century ago will have devastating consequences about the US' image and reputation, as well as its national interests - it is no time for congressmen/women to go on a self-righteousness stampede throughout a region with which US already has extreme tensions.

These Armenian-American groups apparently don't care about the US and the national interests of the American nation, for they are only concerned about the "reparations" they would like to bilk out of Turkey some day. It's disgusting..

Artin

Why should Turkey be afraid of the resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide? Turkey should be afraid because their entire nation, their so-called democracy, is built like a house of cards on a three-legged square table. One former leg, the Ottoman Empire, is gone. The remaining three legs are 1) The mighty Turkish military 2) The extreme nationalism protected by article 301 of the Turkish penal code, and 3) The denial of the Armenian Genocide. That is why their diplomats are working overtime trying to outrun the Truth. That is why they are now overtly threatening the world's superpower. And they are afraid. They should be.

paul friedman

Well done Jane Harman for refusing to be manipulated by the armenian diaspora. It would be nice to see the diaspora put some energy into helping the people in Armenia instead. The armenian lobby in France & the US are no better (and no different) than the nationalist lobby in Turkey who deny any Ottoman involvement in the tragedy of 1915, they are both tarred with the same brush of enmity. Hopefully we will leave history to the historians and allow freedom of speech on this issue here in the US unlike France and Turkey.

Duuude

Harman commits political suicide for a fistful of blood-stained turko-dollars.
Her chances for re-election are now zilch. Good riddance.

Turk 29

Salting the wound will not help anybody. There is a vicious circle we need to break. There's already a huge Anti-Turkish sentiment in Armenia and the passage of this resolution will boost the animosity against Armenia in Turkey. And they will feed each other until another tragedy.

New York Istanbul

Artin ,
You are right, we lost Ottoman Empire. But it is not a bad thing for us, because we don't have as many enemies withinin our borders now as we did back then.

Artin

New York Istanbul,

Tâlât was right. Genocide was, in his mind, the final solution to cleanse his empire of its perceived enemies. Your reference to getting rid of "internal enemies" is your way of implicitly agreeing with Tâlât. For those readers who are unfamiliar with Mehmet Tâlât Paşa, he was the minister of interior affairs in the Ottoman Empire who oversaw and directed the annihilation of the Armenians, and who, after WWI was convicted to death in absentia by the Ottoman military tribunal for those crimes. The Ottomans certainly earned their enemies.

What you're not realizing is that right now Turkey is missing an historic opportunity to come clean, and preemptively accept responsibility of its past crimes. It would certainly be more dignified than to have other countries tell them to do so. Even if the Genocide bill does not pass this week, two things will still be true: There is no statute of limitations on Genocide, and reasonable Turks will eventually guide Turkey out of its intransigence.

Charles

I wonder if any of the above posters who feel it is inappropriate to recognize the Armenian Holocaust have ever complained about US official recognition of the Jewish Holocaust and the tax dollars that built and support the Holocaust museum?
Have any of you been outraged that the president of Iran questions the Jewish Holocaust?
If the US stopped supporting Israel and sided with Iran on the issue of the validity of the Jewish Holocaust would we have been attacked on 9/11 or be fighting Islamists all over the world?
If we are going to pick the Turkish version of history why not the Taliban's?

Daron

Dear Rep Harman,

I see recently you have caved into Turkish pressure and have unabashedly done a 180 concerning HR106 (the Armenian Genocide Resolution).
I could continue with this letter and accuse you of being a hippocrate (in light of you background), but this would fall on deaf ears as you have shown your lack of scruples in a most stunning way.
Basically congresswoman, your denialist actions are unforgivable.
With that said, I hope the Turks have paid you well for your treachery because given the large amount of Armenian-American voters in CA, you will be out of a job next term.
I personnaly will work hard to make this happen.

Armine Akopyan

BUSH IS VITO OF SCHIP

Jacob

My question is to Mr Paul Friedman. Can you tell me sir, with what enmity is Jewish lobby tarred with, that has consistently, for the past 20 years, put pressure on American government to block passing of any resolution on Armenian genocide? Is that the Turkish dollars or the need to be the only ones on history's receiving end of apologies?
Armenians have lost over 300000 fighting Hitler and Nazi regime. One would think that the political lobby of a nation that has suffered over 6 million innocent massacred, would sympathize with another, which suffered the same kind. Or at least step aside. But no. Jewish lobby is in a shameful position of playing political games with another nations Holocaust, throwing dirt on their own.
How dare you mock Armenian's efforts of achieving justice for their history.
Armenian genocide, as well as Jewish Holocaust do not belong only to historians. They are living lessons for today's world, for as long as anti Semitism exists for Jews and Turkey's article 301 and denial for Armenians.

Ralph

I think New York Istanbul forgot about the Kurds when he stated that there are no more enemies within Turkey's borders.

Mr. Beemer

Shame on Turkey, what a mess they made. USA is blackmailed? Saddam could not mess with USA, how is Turkey able to do so? Armenian Genocide is a fact and should be properly recognized!

RIP all the victims of genocides. Armenian Genocide, Jewish Holocaust, Rwanda, Darfur whats the difference, they are all human beings.

Mr.Newyork

Stop using the Holocaust to legitimize your made up genocide claims !

I dont think there is any other ethnic group or a Nation on this planet that would use the suffering of another nation and try to take advantage of it.

J.E.W.S suffered the biggest tragedy of the 20 th century and you guys sink so low that you try to use all that pain all that suffering to your benefit.

you associate your genocide claims with the Holocaust to gain recognition.

one can only sink so low.
If in fact your claims were real and supported by real documents not fabricated ones ISRAEL would've been the first country to recognize your allegations as a country who suffered a real genocide her self.
since Israel hasn't done that for the last 60 years and never will that alone should tell you people or someone who can look at this thing objectively that there is something wrong with this picture.

you revolt against your own country

you side with the enemy in a war that your country" Ottoman" is a party based on the promise" given by Russia and France" of having your own country

you pick up arms and start killing your neighbors and innocent people

than you get your ass kicked by the Turks

and than you go around the world and tell people that you were subjected to a genocide.
I am not sure who in their right mind would define that as a genocide.
that is not genocide that is war and that' s what people do in a war.. kill each other i know this may come to most of you as a surprise.

i am not sure what you guys expected Turks to do.... just sit there and wait for you guys to slaughter them..... you guys are so pathetic

here in this country we killed over 250.000 Japanese people " mostly civilians" during the WW ll with two bombs that is not to say that , that is something we're proud of that is to say that that's what war is about. i dont think you Armenians understand this concept or dont wanna understand it.
than after the bombs just like an honorable nation would do like Germany they accepted the defeat and got on with their lives and become some of the most prosperous countries in the world.
again i guess, expecting something Honorable from Armenians is " from looking at your comments here " asking too much.

You dont hear Japanese going around the world saying that they were subjected to genocide.. because that is not a genocide nor your claims.

Jews never revolted against Germany

Jews never sided with German's enemies

Jews never picked arms and started killing their neighbors Germans

those are the very reasons you guys will never ever get the support of Israel or the Jews for your made up claims.

you should be ashamed of your self to try take advantage of someone elses pain.

I think, it is high time for you people to face the realty because American public has started asking questions about your tall tale story. Since you guys came in to this country before Turks did. you guys have been deceiving Americans for decades and now there are enough Turks in this country to go around and tell people what really happened

Artin

Mr. New York - and - New York Istanbul

When you lose the argument you modify your name and keep going.

Revolts are legitimate means of resistance against immoral regimes like the now defunct Ottoman Empire. Knowing the Ottomans' history of brutality against their minorities, one would think that modern Turks would try to distance themselves from that embarrassing past. Apparently not.

This is the crux of the problem. Modern Turkey is continuing with the same means as the Ottoman Empire in its dealings with its minorities. One entire century has been completely wasted.

They lost the empire then they changed their name/alphabet/clothing, bought new weapons and now they keep going. Sad.

mt

armenians pouring money like crazy to many congressman like Adam Shift,Rodanavich,Kollenberg and many others,
now few Congressman wants to defend Turks they are up and arms about it,
hyprocrats. just 15 years ago they have massacered 1000's of Azeri people in Khocali,burned them live just like they did 90 years ago to Turkish women and children while ther fathers in the war and far away.
and the result they have lost the fight now they cry about it.it was a war .NOT A GENOCIDE
armenians should look at themslves before pointin finger.to others.remeber when you live in glass house do not throw a stone,
thank you

mt

Stop using the Holocaust to legitimize your made up genocide claims !

I dont think there is any other ethnic group or a Nation on this planet that would use the suffering of another nation and try to take advantage of it.

J.E.W.S suffered the biggest tragedy of the 20 th century and you guys sink so low that you try to use all that pain all that suffering to your benefit.

you associate your genocide claims with the Holocaust to gain recognition.

one can only sink so low.
If in fact your claims were real and supported by real documents not fabricated ones ISRAEL would've been the first country to recognize your allegations as a country who suffered a real genocide her self.
since Israel hasn't done that for the last 60 years and never will that alone should tell you people or someone who can look at this thing objectively that there is something wrong with this picture.

you revolt against your own country

you side with the enemy in a war that your country" Ottoman" is a party based on the promise" given by Russia and France" of having your own country

you pick up arms and start killing your neighbors and innocent people

than you get your ass kicked by the Turks

and than you go around the world and tell people that you were subjected to a genocide.
I am not sure who in their right mind would define that as a genocide.
that is not genocide that is war and that' s what people do in a war.. kill each other i know this may come to most of you as a surprise.

i am not sure what you guys expected Turks to do.... just sit there and wait for you guys to slaughter them..... you guys are so pathetic

here in this country we killed over 250.000 Japanese people " mostly civilians" during the WW ll with two bombs that is not to say that , that is something we're proud of that is to say that that's what war is about. i dont think you Armenians understand this concept or dont wanna understand it.
than after the bombs just like an honorable nation would do like Germany they accepted the defeat and got on with their lives and become some of the most prosperous countries in the world.
again i guess, expecting something Honorable from Armenians is " from looking at your comments here " asking too much.

You dont hear Japanese going around the world saying that they were subjected to genocide.. because that is not a genocide nor your claims.

Jews never revolted against Germany

Jews never sided with German's enemies

Jews never picked arms and started killing their neighbors Germans

those are the very reasons you guys will never ever get the support of Israel or the Jews for your made up claims.

you should be ashamed of your self to try take advantage of someone elses pain.

I think, it is high time for you people to face the realty because American public has started asking questions about your tall tale story. Since you guys came in to this country before Turks did. you guys have been deceiving Americans for decades and now there are enough Turks in this country to go around and tell people what really happened

Posted by: Mr.Newyork | October 09, 2007 at 02:57 AM

Mr. New York - and - New York Istanbul

Artin

Mr. New York - and - New York Istanbul

When you run out of ideas you repeat yourself. Your latest posting is the same as your previous posting verbatim. Your behavior illustrates the point I made in an earlier post, that modern-day Turkey is not much more than a re-hashed and re-packaged Ottoman Empire - minus the Empire bit, plus Internet access... not impressed.

Open dialogue between the Turkish and Armenian societies will be possible when the reasonable ones among you (there are many of them, trust me) get the upper hand in the future. It will be a tough battle for them to completely repeal that absurd Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, and then to revise the history books in the country to reflect the truth about the Armenian Genocide. Turkish children deserve at least that level of respect from their elders.

We're not very optimistic of that happening anytime soon, but we're around when that day comes.

Richard Schwarz

The genocide claims of Armenian Diaspora should be titled "Armenian Propaganda". How this fits into a genocidal claim is the work of money hungry politicians. Armenian lobby, one of the strongest in Washington is simply trying to buy a genocide to savor war-mongering Armenian state.

Imagine our country being invaded by multi national forces during wartime with plans to split this country up, a minority group whose lived in this country takes sides with the enemy hoping to create their own state and begin killing Americans. This is exactly what Armenians did. Turks resented Armenians who lived in their country for hundreds of years and reacted strongly. Majority of deaths occurred during deportation due to hunger and illness. Even today, almost 100 years after WWI, the same fate could occur in most countries, under similar conditions. The number of Armenian deaths are inflated while number of Turks dying are deflated. Russians did provide Armenians their own country after the war but it was under their communistic regime. 50 years later, genocide became an issue to claim their independence from the communists and get world attention.

If Armenian claims are so true, why won't the Armenia and Russia open their archives to the world for examination? What do they have to hide? Maybe the crimes they're responsible for against the Turks? Why is it the business of the politicians to decide historical issues and not the historians?

Turkey has been our most dependable ally for years. In fact, Turkey fought side by side with US in Korea, saving many US soldiers from slaughter. Ask any Korean veteran about Turkish soldiers brave acts. Turkey has been our friend through cold war, Korean war, Gulf war and all major conflicts. What has Armenia done for our country?? I can't think of one major contribution. In fact, they've been close friends of Communist Russia and continue to harbor Russian bases and military. Why would our politicians even support this country if they were not receiving large sums of contributions? This alone makes it the wrong reason to support this propaganda. Nancy Pelosi should open up her books and come clean about how much she's received from the Armenian diaspora.

This propaganda only jeopardizes our friendship with Turkey and confirm to the people of Turkey that our politics are self centered without respect to the truth, facts and respect to the people of a country we consider an ally. This issue should be left to the historians and is not worth risking our friendship with a major ally. Let historians decide historical issues, not money hungry politicians whose only goal is to get re-elected.

Artin

Mr. Schwartz.

Please read the resolution. The link is found at the beginning of this blog.

If you choose not to read it, then allow me to summarize: nowhere in the resolution does it reference Armenian sources or your alleged "Armenian propaganda". Instead, it refers to "national archives of Austria, France, Germany, Great Britain, Russia, the United States, the Vatican and many other countries".

Armenians don't need to propagandize, but they need to do something to counterbalance a well-coordinated and well financed Turkish campaign that tries to confuse, misdirect and threaten everyone into accepting their version of history.

With your line of reasoning, Raphael Lemkin (who coined the word "genocide"), the Anti-Defamation League, Elie Weisel, and many Israeli historians are all "Armenian propagandists". Please direct your hostility towards them.

 
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